Craig Melvin The REAL cost of success nobody talks about, parenting and Savannah's return| The Pivot

I think one of the reasons that God blessed me with the gig that I had is that I've always been kind of layered and kind of weird. Like I've got lots of odd interests. And you don't typically regret the things you do. You typically regret the things you don't do. That people who are really good at something. You always sacrifice something. For me, I had to make peace with what I was sacrificing. I think a lot of times we want people to be things that they're not capable of being. One of the highlights of my life to this day has been sitting in my basement recording hours of conversations with my father. >> Wow. >> Had I not done that, I don't think I'm sitting here right now. >> How many times though did you think to yourself, is this sacrifice worth some of the things I'm giving up relationally. >> Focus on the quality, not the quantity. Your kids aren't necessarily going to miss the things you're not there for. They're going to remember the things you were there for. None of this is given. You have to do something to earn your way in the world. And that's a hard lesson to teach right now. This idea that you can be broken, but you can still show up. You can still put one foot in front of the other to be able to see her overcome something so unfathomable. That's powerful. When you ask someone how they view life, glass full, glass empty, it gives you a little window into their soul. >> Hold up. Limitless pinning it up here to witness it. Got my people feeling militant way to get me up on a mission got me up knowing me I got the key on this vision I can trust trust limit >> and you can see like you little bougie got Eric said he had to fix his mic cuz he had on cashmere >> I'll be able to afford cashmir >> one Super Bowl champion can call anybody bougie he's not wearing Hannes t-shirt >> he had a he on cashmere. >> Yeah, I'll get that one day. >> Hey, that's that today show money. You know what I'm saying? Craig Melvin, man. Welcome to the show. >> OH, WE JUST ALWAYS START. >> YEAH, THAT'S HOW WE START. That That's how we start. That's Fred Taylor, Channon Crowder, Ryan Clark. >> I love how you introduce everybody. Like, I don't know who the I grew up watching. You won a Super Bowl. People know who you are. >> We got to introduce ourselves. You know what I mean? It's part of it. >> You don't need an introduction. >> You know, we got to introduce ourselves, man. Welcome to the show. I'm glad we're in New York, >> right? Because I would guess you can't go back to Connecticut after after the whole, you know, they get your taxes, but your heart's in South Carolina with Don Staley. >> Yeah. You do your research. You know, it's one of those things where I thought it was a clever post at the time cuz Dawn and I have been friends for for a number of years. Like just ride or die. Like Dawn is friends with my mom, right? >> And so anytime the Gamecocks are in the postseason, I wave the flag proud. I've grew up in Colombia, took some classes at USC, and I temporarily forgot where I lived, and most of my friends are Yukon fans, and I have gotten more grief over the last five days for just declaring my allegiance to South Carolina instead of Yukon. I was I think I was slightly vindicated by the way Gino went out, y, >> you know. But yeah, no, I'm I'm Don Don Staley forever. I stand by it. Connecticut can have my taxes. >> Yeah, you gave me the most important >> South Carolina has my heart. >> It's like I I see you at my house and it's not even from the Today Show. It's, you know, watching you on TV talk about these different stories and these crimes and do it in such an impactful way. And then you transition to the morning show and you're welcoming people into your home with part of your family and they're doing the same with theirs. Talk a little bit about being in your line of work and the versatility that it's taken you to get to the point that you're in. >> That's a good question. You know, it's interesting because I've said before, I think one of the reasons that the Today's Show works, and it's worked for almost 75 years now, it's, you know, when you tune in every morning, you're going to get a little bit of everything. You'll get the latest on the war with Iran. You're going to get the latest political news in general. You'll get some sports. You'll get some music. You'll get some food. You get a little bit little bit of everything because I think that's a reflection of who we are as people. Like, you're not just a Super Bowl champ, you know? You're not just NFL players. Like, you're a businessman. you you like to make children uh during during during pandemics. Um so we're all we're all layered. And so I think I I think one of the reasons that that God blessed me with the gig that I have is that I've always been kind of kind of layered and kind of weird. Like I've got lots of odd interests, right? You know, I'm into sports, I'm into music, I've always been a news junkie. I love to read, but I also I like to make candles. So, it just ended up being over time a good fit. But starting out in the business, >> I wasn't that versatile cuz when you start in local news, >> you know, it's a lot of car wrecks, it's it's a lot of house fires, it's a lot of murder, and it's just it's that's that's the nature of of local news, unfortunately. Um, so over time, I've been allowed to do more of the things that I enjoy doing. How do you separate the heart and the the morals and just like your angle on life, your thoughts? >> Sure. >> To reporting like you're supposed to report, but then you already have things in your heart that you feel. >> It's interesting because I do think cuz I had a cable show for a decade on MSNBC and you know that was during the time where MSNBC became sort of 80 90% politics. It was hard sometimes, not even because I'm overly political. In fact, I think one of the things that ser served me well then and still serves me well I'm not overly political. There are oftentimes now to be clear there are certain things where you you see it and you hear you're like there they're not two sides to that >> but there are other things certain political issues it's like okay well I can I can see that I can well okay I can see that. So it it does help that naturally I think I'm sort of a dispassionate person about a lot of things. Now, there are other mornings where I'm sitting on set and yes, I have to to to to work on my facial expressions. Yeah. >> And swallow my thoughts and remind myself I have a mortgage and two small AND TWO SMALL CHILDREN that probably want to go to college. >> Yeah. >> But otherwise, IT'S AND I I also think not not to preach, but I think one of the things unfortunately that started that hadn't started, but it's been happening in our country for some time. You have an opinion on something. I have an opinion on something. Fred has an And all of a sudden it's it's not us sharing our opinions. It's their opinion's stupid. And let me tell you why. Or Ryan's This is crazy. And here's why it's crazy. And so I just that's never been me as a person. And so I don't have to play a part part on TV usually. And again, there's certain mornings where I don't hide my fandom where I'll say, "Yeah, let's go Gamecocks." You know, well, when my alma moater Wford College, Tiny Waford, was in a dance a few years ago for two weeks. I was I WAS PROMOTING WFORD. TIES, T-SHIRTS, WENT DOWN AND did a piece at the school and we were out in the first round. >> Yeah. Hey, but you know what? The buildup was great, though. The point to get there was good. My agent actually went to Walford. So, >> wait a minute. >> His name's Joel Turner. And so, >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah. He went to Wford and so we would talk about it all the time. So, hey, I am a supporter of Tiny Old Walford as well. >> Yeah, Joel Turner. Joel did well. >> Yeah, he did really well, man. >> He did well. He didn't study government like me. Clearly, he must have been a finance guy. >> He must have been, right? My agent's from Colombia way back in the day. >> Well, Tank Black. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Tank was my agent and then we sort of went through this entire thing. >> Yeah. You said yes. Like that was a great thing. I don't know. Hey, I don't >> I was going to stop. That was one of them times you should have probably hid your facial expression. >> Well, when he said tank black, >> I I didn't know if Fred was going to go there, but Fred was very diplomatic in acknowledging his wrongdoing. >> Yeah. I mean, it's part of it and and a lot of what I try and do. >> Did he swindle you? >> Oh, he swindled all of us. >> Yeah. I mean, but that's sort of water under the bridge, but we all grew and learned from it. >> You know, things happen for a reason. Yeah. I actually did. We talked after he got out of prison and I just asked him why. you know, that's it. And we kind of went through that, but that was the end of it. Basically, at the end of there, what I was getting at is I went there to uh secure my Mercedes Benz when I came out of college, my credit line, $50,000, and I hit this little Bob spot. >> Yeah. >> Right in the middle of Columbia. >> Remember the name of it? >> No, but it was a lot of fun. I was fresh out of college, but but it it was fun. My name was Columbia. >> Remember what street? >> I do not. >> We might have been there at the same time. Greg was IN THE BACK. >> YEAH. But it it was a lot of fun. It was Columbia, South Carolina, and it met a lot of great people. And uh I I kind of wanted to to get to what parts of uh impressionable young Craig, you know, that South Carolina may or may still follows you every day, every morning that we get an opportunity to see you on today's show. >> My entire family is still in Colombia. literally aunts, uncles, siblings, the whole whole family's within a a 20 mile radius. So, I'm back all the time. There's a a text thread that we're all on where I routinely get mocked if I'm wearing something that's ridiculous or I I say something that's ridiculous. >> Yeah. They So, but they keep me grounded, >> you know. So, they so they keep me grounded. It's, you know, it's interesting because Colombia I worked in I worked in Colombia in local news until I was 28. I I bought a house there. My grandma could watch me every evening. I was dating a girl at the time. Like I was if I had stayed in Columbia for 30, 40 years, I I would have already exceeded most of the expectations I'd had leading up to that point. And I remember vividly when I got a job offer to go to Washington DC. My grandmother, who's since passed, she was kind of like, well, why would you leave Colombia? But I, you know, you've you've been in small towns before, smaller cities before, and I HAD A PRETTY GOOD LIFE. And it was one of those things where partly God, partly other members of my family who were just like, you got to go to grow. And and you you don't typically regret the things you do. You typically regret the things you don't do. >> I got to a point where I knew I would have regretted not rolling the dice. But no, Colombia, I tell people all the time, Columbia is a great place to live. Now, it's become a little different with USC. Back then, it wasn't a necessarily a great place to visit, but it's a great place to live and raise a family. And every time I go back, I go to the same spots, the same hole-in-the-wall bar like bars, you know, and I when I take the family, the family the bill will come and they're like, "Wow, that only cost $38." in in Connecticut it it would be $138, >> right? >> So, you know what, FRED, I'M ALWAYS skeptical about people who sort of forget where they come from, right? >> You know, like people who who don't go home as much or don't really have that sort of connection to their hometown. It's made me everything I am and and more importantly everything I'm not. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you know, my wife Lindsay, sometimes she'll poke fun at me cuz I'm still, you know, you grew up in Columbia, South Carolina, when your dad's a male clerk and your mom's a school teacher, there's not a lot of money lying around and you know, you I start to worry sometimes that it could all go like that. So, I can be oddly cheap on on certain things. >> Hey, nothing wrong with being frugal. >> Yes. >> Yeah, but that Kashmir ain't cheap. >> No, the Kashmir is not. To be fair, I've had it for three seasons. >> Okay. >> This is my third season. So, I've retired after this one. >> Yeah. You know, you mentioned Colombia being making you everything that you are, but also what you're not, which is just as important, right? The the the principles and the things that you'll stand on, also the things you won't do. We laughed and joked before we started filming, you know, Channing made a baby during co. You wrote a book. >> Yes. And in writing that book, you explored part of what also makes you what you are. Your father and his battles with addiction and some of him being absent and working to for reconciliation and forgiveness. >> What about that experience affected you the most? You know, I it's it's it's interesting because it took me a long time to realize that that it was impacting me, that it was affecting me, and I'd started to achieve some, you know, professional success. And I I would still find myself angry and I just it didn't sit right with my spirit, this relationship or lack thereof I'd had with my dad. I was I got married. I was starting my own family and we were by all accounts we were estranged. You know, we didn't talk on the phone a whole I'd see him at family gatherings. We didn't have much of a relationship. And then when my son was born, I I I developed this bond with him and how magical that was. And and I would go to therapy. I'm a firm believer in therapy. I've been going to therapy for years. And my therapist for for for years was like, you know, you really should you got to you got to make peace with this relationship with your dad. not for your dad, but for you. >> And so, and I I just for years I thought about it and I thought about it and we made some attempts at it and and he when he retired he was, you know, he was a casual drinker for years. And then that casual drinking turned into just blackout drunk a few days a week. And when he retired, he didn't have anything else to do but drink. And so I get a call one day. He'd been an offender bender uh on Broad River Road in Columbia, South Carolina and he could have killed somebody and he didn't. Fortunately, it was just and we got the family together as we've done before and and we used it as an opportunity to stage an intervention. >> Mhm. >> And we tried we tried interventions for years. None of them had stuck. And so this time I called in an expert, a woman who specializes in this sort of thing. And I'll never forget it. It was a Sunday morning. We'd gathered around kind of like this actually. We'd all written our letters about how much we loved our dad and what the things that we loved about him specifically and and the things that he was missing out on because of this addiction that had consumed him. And we had a backpack for him and we were basically going to kidnap him, throw in the back of an SUV and take him to this um inpatient facility down in Statesboro, Georgia. So we sat around, read our letters, everybody's crying and and that was when I I in my mind I was like, "This dude's going to get up and walk out of here like he's done before." Lo and behold, sat there, acknowledged everything that we' said, hopped in the back of that SUV, went to Statesboro, Georgia, hasn't had a drink since. >> Wow. >> It it was the beginning of a new relationship between me and him. It was just it was a beautiful thing. My father was in his 60s at the time. It it was it was amazing. Um and it it but it also led to a lot of other things for me here. Like it's because every family's you know this every family screwed up. >> Yes. >> And you've got that uncle that you don't talk to for whatever reason or you got this cousin that's always hitting you up for money or so. It's one it was one of those things for us where we didn't realize how fractured of a family we'd become and then all of a sudden like we sort of rallied around him and he developed this relationship with his grandkids and all of a sudden he and I were talking one time about addiction and redemption and recovery and I was like people could benefit from this story. I should do a story. He's like yeah or write a book and I was like I don't know about writing a book Dad cuz you know I got a pretty demanding job. And then COVID hit and it was just one of the highlights of my life to this day has been sitting in my basement um recording hours of conversations with my father. >> Wow. >> Just just talking about life. My dad was he was born in a a federal prison in West Virginia cuz my my grandma was badass. She ran numbers and liquor. And so she had run it one too many times and she'd gotten locked up. And so my father was born in prison. Didn't even know who his father was until he was a teenager. And and so part of what I came to understand about him and about others. And this is one of life's great frustrations. I think a lot of times we we want people to be things that they're not capable of being. >> I wanted my father to be Heath Cliff Huxable. He'd never seen that, right? Like if you don't even know who your dad is, is it reasonable to expect that he's going to be a good father. And so I I try to expect people to behave and perform in a way that I think they're capable of of behaving. And by the way, had I not done that, I'm I don't think I'm sitting here right now. I'm I'm not I'm not at peace. I'm not content. I'm angstritten. I'm I'm angry. of all those things that that helped me overcome. You know what y'all need to do is y'all need to charge people to come in here for therapy because I've g I mean this is going I'VE BEEN SITTING HERE IT'S BEEN 10 MINUTES. Y'all need to you send me a bill. I'll pay the bill. >> Yeah. >> U but no I mean that's a long answer to a short question. But >> hey Craig you're actually like me though, >> right? I I've I've learned that in a short time. Yeah. You one of those people that started therapy and now you tell everybody about it. Hey, every conversation, every conversation I have when people I start getting uncomfortable, I be like, "Have you ever talked to someone?" >> But you know what? >> HE'S MY THERAPIST. >> HEY, MY FRIENDS have told me it's annoying. >> Yeah. >> You know, you have a buddy buddy's like, "I'm having trouble in my marriage." You know, you should really go talk to a therapist. You should take YOUR WIFE. I'VE GOT A GUY. AND MY, BY THE WAY, my therapist, Charlie, shout out to Charlie. Charlie's asked me to stop doing this. Yeah, >> cuz Charlie's like I I can't take any more like every friend you send I like I was like, "Okay, I get it, Charlie. I get >> That's me. Hey, I'm I'm the same way, brother." >> But it helps. >> No, it's it's But here's the thing with you. Like, not to not to gash you. You're you know, Ryan Clark, legendary Steeler, all Super Bowl champ. People just assume, oh, man, these guys like all you LIKE YOU GUYS, THE ASSUMPTION is if you achieve any sort of success, especially if you play a pro sport in the United States of America, they're good. Yep. >> They're good. >> You got money. >> Yeah. Oh, well, >> you got money, you're fine. >> I mean, oh, >> that's what everybody thinks. You got money, you're fine. >> You put the second part on the sentence cuz you do have money. I got a little >> Yeah, I was going to say, >> but but but to that point, well, during co you were writing a book >> and talking to your dad. I was making babies. So, I think I decided better than YOU DECIDED. >> I had a lot more fun on my side than you were having on your side. >> You did. You did. Chan, you can also write the book and practice though. Like, >> you Yeah. Yeah. Me and Asia, we we went after my wife. The kids are in virtual school. We got an hour. >> Oh god. >> Asia, >> no homeworks done. We might as well go in the room. God. >> But becoming that just along that path of being rich or being known, becoming the patriarch because do you think without you your father would have went to to the intervention? do think without you the transition of being that patriarch cuz we all had to go through it with success, money, whatever it is. But I remember shifting into the point where everybody's asking me questions. What should I do? My sisters, my mom, my this, my that. >> I just hit people real hard and run fast. Like, do you remember the moment when you had to shift to being the patriarch of your family? >> I do. That's a good question. I remember because the reality is, you know, no you don't know this actually because if people see you playing football on TV on Sunday, they know you're not out there making minimum wage. >> I remember when I took a job in DC, I think my family, they're like, "Oh, well, Craig, HE MUST BE DOING OKAY." And so, you know, people that I would interact with normally, all of a sudden it's like, hey, you know, I rent blah blah blah, you know, I can you blow me blah. Can you and at first I was like oh you know wow of course you know it's I won't name names but oh it's cousin blah blah blah uncle you know it's or then you would get like the father of a of like a close friend who would be hey I got this idea you know I need bl and so it it took me a couple years to realize that I'm only obligated to my mama my kids my wife and now my dad >> and everyone else. It's a grant maybe because you're not getting it back. But it's it's also one of those things where I had a conversation one time with a a family member who needed something and he's he's he he had always been there for me and he this was legit like he'd fallen on some hard times and I I was like, "Oh, absolutely. I I got you." He's like, "I'm going to get it back to you." I was like, "No, no, no, >> no." Because if you say you're going to give it back to me and you don't, then we're going to have this weird dynamic. I don't want the weirdness. This is this is this is a yes. This is a thank you. >> So that was when I I started that was the the financial side of it. >> And then all of a sudden >> you'd start getting questions from from people in your circle about because I think people just assume that I'm on a show in the morning and I talk to experts that I'm an expert on something. YEAH. >> LIKE AN AUNT WOULD ASK ME ABOUT A RECIPE. SHE'S LIKE, "YEAH, LAST WEEK ON THE SHOW, YOU REMEMBER YOU HAD BLAH Martha Stewart was on. YOU REMEMBER THE I don't remember what I talked about this morning." She's like, "Well, did you did the thing?" I was like, "I can't. It's all a blur." And and so I would get I still do get a lot of people asking me questions that I'm not remotely qualified to answer, but I but I'll tell you what I do. I use AI. I just I write AI. I'm like I look it up. I don't even tell them I use because they're older now. They don't know AI. So, I just I look and give him the answer like, "Ah, Craig's a genius." Um, but what I always do, I've got um I've got two cousins now who are at >> Walford. >> They're my godsons. I do spend a lot of time talking to younger members of my family about the dos and more importantly the don'ts. Um because I didn't get a lot of that growing up. So, that was a long answer to a short. Y'all going to have to edit. Y'all do edit. >> No, you're not. No, they gonna get all this. Craig Melvin, you need to you're going to have to but I I've gone out of my way not to use profanity. >> No, he used enough of it. >> He I ain't never heard him cuss. That's why I'm not cussing. >> I I clean it up, but I've got PR from NBC over there. So, every time I use a bad word, I get like a shock in my back. >> Right. Shannon is the reason we straddle between going viral and being cancelled. >> So, that that's who Shannon is. >> But that's where you want to live. You want to live in that gray area. >> So, that's a safe space. But you mentioned spending hours with your dad in the basement. How did becoming a father change the way you understood your father and possibly the questions you asked him throughout preparation for your book? >> I know for me at least I was shaped more by what I didn't see than what I did see. >> Okay. >> And so I watched a lot of TV growing up. I watched a lot of Cosby Show. Um there were other shows that featured dads in a in a very portrayed them in a positive light. So I had that example and but at home I I had a a dad who worked third shift because if you work the third shift at the post office you make a few more bucks. >> He didn't take vacations because again he needed the overtime. It was all about making as much money as possible. My mom at one point and she was a school teacher and at one point my dad's gambling had gotten to a point where it was so bad my mom had to pick up a second job. And and so growing up I saw a woman who was working two jobs. I saw my father in the throws of addiction working overnights sometimes working weekends that couldn't be at any little league game or any of my orchestra concert. He couldn't because he was at work. And so when I became a dad, I kind of married the two. I took my my my dad's work ethic has always just been undeniable. And and so I took that work ethic and I took my mom's sacrifice. My mom was the first in the family to go to college. She went on to grad school, got a master's degree in education, grew up in the projects, got a great story of her own, like one of the first black kids at her high school in Colombia to integrate AC floor High School and and so I took these things that I saw from both of them. And when I so when I became a dad, I was like, you know what? I'm going to be there physically just the ministry of presence. I'm going to be at all their stuff. And you've you've been a dad a long time. A lot of their stuff isn't good, you know, like like I'm I >> BAD SOCCER LIKE I WAS SITTING AT A DANCE RECITAL TWO SATURDAYS AGO IN Connecticut and you go to a dance recital for 4 HOURS, YOUR CHILD DANCES FOR 2 MINUTES. >> SO THE FIRST TIME I GO I'M SHE'S DONE. I'M LIKE, "OKAY, well that's we" And my wife said, "What are you doing?" >> I was like, "Well, she's done." >> She's like, "No, you have to stay." >> Right? >> I'm like, "Is she dancing again? >> I don't even know these things. RIGHT. MY WIFE LIZZIE IS LIKE, "NO, NO, YOU HAVE TO STAY." I'M LIKE, "YOU DON'T HAVE TO STAY. NO ONE'S GOING TO NOTICE." >> Coffee cup. >> Yeah. >> Coffee cup is the secret. >> That by the way, I learned that because I'm just I remember thinking sitting there like I was so proud of my little girl and I'm sitting there thinking, how did I get here on a Saturday afternoon watching all these mediocre children from various parts of Connecticut and THEN PEOPLE ARE CLAPPING? I'M LIKE, WHY ARE YOU CLAPPING? YOU KNOW THAT'S GARBAGE. >> Don't pretend. So, >> they feel the same way about their kid AS YOU DO. HOW ABOUT YOURS? >> I KNOW MY SON PLAYS TRAVEL BASKETBALL. I TOLD HIM. >> I told him last weekend. We were in the Bronx. Now, granted, he had come off a concussion, so he didn't get to practice the week before. Uh he got hit in the head and playing dodgeball, but that's separate story. So, anyway, man, he was in that game might have been eight minutes, missed four shots, missed two free throws. And I don't I'm NOT ONE OF THESE GENTLE PARENTS. >> I said to him after the game, I was like, "Buddy, I I know you were trying, but if we going to spend six hours on a weekend, you we got to we you got to play better. >> We'll put in the bat." >> Yes. You're not going to be Ryan Clark, you know, showing up mediocre. >> So, yeah. So, >> I cuz like a hoop, Chad, you see >> Oh, Lord, don't get him started. >> So, no. SO, BUT SO MY SO I'D LEARNED THAT FROM MY DAD, just being present. I was going to do that. And you know, for my mom, it was one of those things. I've said this before about about the job. I may not have gone to the best school. You know, I didn't I didn't come from the best family. I didn't I didn't get a head start in terms of money. Uh but you weren't going to outwork me >> from the be you were you were not going to outwork me. And I remember before people talked about a work life balance. I I would do 16 hours on a Saturday at local local news. I'd do the morning show. I'd come back do the evening show. I was a photographer. I shot video. I was I did all those things early on because I knew that I I I was going to have to work harder than most. And so I took some of some of both. Now, what I didn't necessarily appreciate is as your kids get older, it becomes I've had to check myself a few times and remember that the same things that drive me may not necessarily be the same things that that drive my son. like I can't be a complete hard ass with both both of my kids and expect to get the results that my parents got, you know, like it doesn't. So, I've had to kind of figure that out as I I can't talk to my daughter the same way that I talked to my son. I get very different reactions. Uh, and it's taken me a while to to sort of figure that out. >> It's a joke in my house because like when I did football, we talk about I did football. >> Yeah. >> Right. It was I was at work early. I stayed at work late. I put the kids to bed. I watched film. I wasn't coming like that was my life. And this whole big thing was you accomplished all these things in football and when you retire we're going to get dad and husband. And then I start this job and they like hell you home less now than you were when you played. >> I saw somewhere where you said though the sacrifices and the way you worked you couldn't be a good a good friend. >> Yes. >> Right. I think people who are workaholics grab things from people so they could kind of tell their close loved ones these things. I was like, "Guys, Kobe Bryant said he wasn't a good friend. He's one of the greatest basketball players of all time cuz he was working." How many times though did you think to yourself, is this sacrifice worth some of the things I'm giving up relationally? >> No, I never thought it. Never thought it. And maybe maybe this is some something I should probably take up with Charlie because I think I I think if I thought it I would be admitting that perhaps I did lose out on some some relationships as a result of the work. I I do know this. I know that when I was in my 20s, I was not mentally well. I was at least 20 pounds heavier. Um I I I did not see I didn't have close friends because not only was I I working all the time, I was working odd hours. like I was working the overnight shift. I've done morning television for a long time. I I think that if I were to admit that, I would be also sort of admitting that maybe I made a mistake along the way. What I've always maintained is that people who are really good at something, we you always sacrifice something. You're either you're sacrificing time. For a lot of folks, unfortunately, they're sacrificing money. You're sacrificing relationships. Whether it's a relationship with with the guys, whether it's a relationship with a woman, we're all sacrificing something. I think for me, I had to make peace with what I was sacrificing. I Carson Daly gave me some advice some years ago because I was I had missed something. And he's got four kids, so I mean, and he's got like three jobs, so he misses, you know, he misses some stuff from time to time. He said to me once, he said, "Craig, focus on the quality, not the quantity." He's like, "Your kids aren't necessarily going to miss like the things you're not there for. They're going to remember the things you were there for." >> And take take some of the money that you make and take them on amazing vacations. And and that's one of the things that we've really focused on with our family, like, okay, you know, if dad's got to be up at at 3:45, I I probably can't get to that 8 o'clock concert or that late basketball game or practice, but when you've got winter break or spring break or like we're going to go some cool places. We're going to make what the kids call those core memories. >> So, yeah. I do you and Do you regret some of the Because I I don't know. We don't. I don't. My family doesn't have the life that we have in my opinion if I'm not the way I am. >> Yeah. So, you just said the quiet part out loud cuz I was going to say it, but I was going to I felt like it might have made me look like an ass. >> No, >> because I tell the kids sometimes I remind them say, "Oh, you like those. You like those Jordans. Oh, you Oh, all this lights you have in the house, the AC. Oh, the Oh, the pool. You were in the pool this weekend. >> Oh, we like that." Right. >> You know, Yeah. dad's got to go to the Olympics for a couple weeks or no that's and so but again my therapist has maintained that when children see me >> when when children see parents working that's great because they grow up understanding that none of this is given >> like you go out you hit you get hit you run you c LIKE YOU DO YOU HAVE TO do something to earn your way in the world >> um and that's a hard lesson to teach right now >> you know well because there's just this way to be instantly famous or we're in this microwave society where you get this immediate validation, >> right? And but we don't have or a lot of us aren't brought up that way. No. Right. And >> how do you balance from that perspective though, Craig? Right. We talk about this. >> There were so many things I learned because of adversity of my circumstances. And it wasn't always that I was put in bad situations, but I was put in situation situations where there wasn't a toutelage of how to get through this. You learn through experiencing it, right? You learn those lessons. >> My kids >> didn't necessarily have those lessons to learn. And I didn't want them to. I didn't want my parents worked to to help me go to Catholic school and do those things so my kids didn't have to go through the things I went through. But because of that, there are times I've had I would have conversations with them and they'd be like, "I don't know what you're talking about, Dad." Or, "This thing this thing doesn't exist, Dad. That's not how people are, Dad." How do you try to give your kids some of those lessons and experiences to know that this is what the real world is like outside of all of this that we've been able to build through hard work? that has become the number one greatest challenge um for me as as a parent and my wife because and I think we do this as a society we overcorrect and and we've overcorrected you know I I told you about my parents and how much they worked and I was a latch key child before they had a term called we didn't know we were latch key children it was just what we did and so as a result I I wanted to make sure that my kids live the kind of life that I wish that I'd lived and and we do that. Now, conversely, when there's a curveball, you know, we're picking them up off the floor, you know, IT'S OH, WE DON'T HAVE ANY GREEK YOGURT in the house. We just it's just the reg you just got regular yogurt and and it's and you and you look around, you're like, okay, well, are we doing it right? Are they >> they're not resilient? And if you're if you're not if you don't grow up resilient, then all of a sudden when mom dad's not around and you got to deal with some real life stuff, you have a rough go at it. And so Ryan, I So it's interesting. I've actually I've started reading a lot of books about this. Um there's a book written last year. It's my favorite book last year written by a guy named Scott Galloway. It's called Notes on Being a Man. There's another guy that I'm I'm reading now. He writes about um happiness. um Arthur C. Brooks and and and part of what they write about um is this notion that you're you we've got an entire generation of of of kids who are addicted to phones. They they can't accept no. They're not resilient. And and and it looks at what are going to be the consequences not just for them and our families, but what are going to be the consequences for society? >> And so I'm I'm struggling with it. I mean there sometimes I say no just for the hell of it like just just because they you need to hear no. It's like dad can I have that? Can I have some Gatorade? No, you can't have it. Dad, it's right there. No, Dad. I haven't had anything to drink in six hours. No, have water. You know, it's just But it's and I tell like I you have to do it >> otherwise it's just Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Validation. Validation, man. But and I and I do tell him sometimes I'm like that was good. That wasn't great. >> That wasn't great. You're good. Yeah. YOU'RE NOT REALLY YOU'RE NOT THAT SPECIAL. It's good. It's great, sweetie. You're not special. But I now I'm not a complete jackass cuz I start with Oh, sweetie. That was And then I'm like, >> I know I >> But you just It's funny. Don Staley, you love Dawn. She she came out with a quote. She said overprotected kids become unprepared adults. >> They are. >> And that's what you're talking about where if you Yeah. If you're always there now, they get in the real world. They don't know what the hell's going on. >> No, they don't. >> But it was it was well-intentioned. It was well-intentioned. Like we went from I I remember I was learning how to drive. My dad had a 73 Pontiac Lemons. I was on I26 driving back from my aunt's house going home and my dad worked third shift and he was letting me drive and and he was nodding off and I tried to pass and get over too quickly and I kind of swerved and he hopped up. My dad didn't say a thing. He took that left hand UM POW. I'M DRIVING LIKE WE COULD HAVE LIKE ENDED up in the and like but it stayed with me. If I were to raise my hand at one of my children right now, the tears they'd call they'd CALL CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES. THEY'D go to the neighbor's house. Like there's no universe. There's no universe in which you can even you know like I can't even >> neighbors is crazy. And so, but sometimes what I have learned is that if I tell them the stories about when I used to get beat like that's enough to like right they're like oh wait a minute he's capable of it he might do it this time >> he's do you know this is when they say we separate the room so it was like boys you >> oh my god >> myself hardwick like do you understand you have pretty privilege in your career if you didn't look the way you look with the pretty eyes and the and the teeth and the face. >> That's not true. That's not >> you, Craig. You don't have pretty privilege. >> I do not have pretty privilege. >> You sound like you've been talking to some guys in my chat group, THOUGH. >> YOU A GOOD-LOOK DUDE. >> WE'RE WE'RE GOOD-LOOKING PEOPLE. SO, we can SPEAK ABOUT THIS. BUT I would also add even if you look the way you look and and and you couldn't you know you didn't have any sort of athleticism you you know you're just a dude you know working a minimum wage job doing whatever like I mean you still had to HAVE SOME SKILL >> SOME SKILL BUT YOU'RE skillful but did it did your appearance help your career? >> Television is a visual medium. >> Yeah >> television is a visual medium. Um, but we have ugly people on TV all the time. We I mean, if I sat here long enough, >> they're guests. >> Y'all don't have UGLY PEOPLE ON YOUR PODCAST. >> YEAH, we don't care. >> Yeah, you don't have ugly people on your podcast. >> I offset it, though. >> Great. This ain't the first time, bro. >> By the way, I will tell you, I was today 8 years old when I heard the term pretty privilege. I'm stealing that. Really? >> I'm stealing it. >> It's something you should get with that, too. But don't you think that people who are moderately attractive in life have an advantage just across the board? >> 100%. >> Yes. >> I enjoy it every day. >> I I I would take it a step further. I think if you look around sometimes I will see a a woman who's really attractive and they might be with a man who is not remotely close to as and and then I wonder why and then it usually comes back to one of three things. job, money, money. >> I THOUGHT YOU GIVE US >> OR THEY'RE really funny and have a great personality. >> But the opposite's not true. >> Yeah. >> Like if if you are, you know, like I think you got to have a little bit of both. >> Yeah. >> Notice I deliberately didn't name names. So the cameras are off. I'm going to give you some concrete examples. Every time every time I see him, I'm like, I wish I wish I'd worked harder in school or I could have gotten in the lead, you know. >> Yeah, it's true. >> Hey, Craig, aside from those things, which I think those are all great talk about some of the uh philanthropic work that that you do, the the color corrector cancer alliance. >> So, Fred, thank you for asking about that. So, you know, I years ago, um, my brother was 39 years old, older brother played football at Walford and he was having some some intestinal issues and went to a doctor. Um, doctor was like, well, you know, it's um, it's, you know, it's it's probably it's probably stress because at the time he was had a church and he was also running a funeral home and and had two young children. And so, his doctor's like, you know, it's it's probably it's it's probably an ulcer. Let's we'll check for that and we'll change your diet a little bit. Starts to lose weight. Goes back to the doctors. Doctor's like, "Nah, let's see. Let's try let's really change your diet. We'll add some fiber, you know, just 39 years old." Didn't didn't think it was anything serious. Loses a bit more weight, blood in his stool. Finally goes back and the doctor's like, "You know what? Let's just goes to a different doctor, by the way, at this point." And the doctor's like, "Let's rule out everything. I'm going to give you a CT scan." CT scan comes back and the doctor knew immediately um had had a a tumor the size of a tangerine um in his colon. And so he was diagnosed at 39, stage four colctal cancer. He fought he he really did I mean did the chemo, did the radiation, um had a like did everything that he could have done. Um but he he died three and a half years later he died at 43. While he was alive, we became really active in the colorectal cancer space and I team up teamed up with the colorectal cancer alliance and we wanted to get a first of all get a bunch of guys who look like us to go get their screenings. >> At that time the screening age was 50. It's been reduced to 45. We did some lobbying for that. Um and and we wanted to raise a bunch of money to help people who couldn't get screenings, who couldn't afford them to to get them and and awareness campaigns as well. And so when he was alive, we started doing a bunch of that stuff. And when it became clear that he wasn't going to, you know, survive, he wanted to make sure that I I continued after he was gone. And you know, when people are dying and they ask you to do anything, you know, you're like, "Of course, of course." We spend a lot of time talking about blood in the stool and getting your family history checked and listening to your body and going to the doctor and and not feeling like there's some sort of stigma surrounding a colonoscopy which is the gold standard. And so yeah, we we've done it for five years and this will be our fifth year. Y'all play golf? >> Yeah. >> Oh, good. >> At all. >> Pokeito. >> Well, we could still get him to come out, but we get a bunch of guys. drive the car. I I hang out. I'm good for I'm good for vibes. >> Good. Great. Great. I can SEE I CAN SEE THAT with you. >> I'm good for the vibes. >> See you being good for vibes. But we get a bunch of, you know, a bunch of, you know, some athletes and some journalists and some some folks who are connected to colorectal cancer. They come out. We have a concert on Sunday. We do a big golf tournament on Monday. And in four years, we've raised about almost $4.5 million. And all of the money's gone back to the colorectal cancer alliance. And one of the things that gives me great pride is when someone will come up on the plaza. Someone someone will come up on the street or they'll send me an email and they're like, "Hey, um I went and I I got I got a colonoscopy and I'm glad I went because they they they found some polyps and the doctor said if I hadn't gotten and so we we're trying to save lives, you know, and so I just and I I get the sense that you guys believe this as well. Um and I've done a little research so I know you do. When God blesses you abundantly as we all have been blessed, you are duty bound. Yep. >> Duty bound to give back. Not just write checks, not just get not just do but but to use the platform to do some good, to raise awareness, to encourage other folks to to avoid the fate of a of a loved one. And so that's as I as I tell my wife and my mom all the time, I'm just trying to get into heaven. >> Yeah. >> Because I know when I see St. Peter, I'm going to have I'm going to have some explaining to do about about a 12- year period in my life. And so, what I'm hoping is that I can say to St. Peter, hey, between the ages of 22 and 32, don't look at that. Look at this body of work. THIS IS THE BETTER BODY OF WORK. >> AND also too, like you don't know how good a movie is until you SEE THE ENDING. >> YES. >> You know what I'm saying? I'm using that. >> Yeah. You don't know how Yeah. Like it's okay in the middle, but man, in this ending, we really turned it around. >> That's what I'm trying to turn it around. >> Or you could be Jenny from Forest Gump and be awful for the entire movie and never have one redemptive quality. >> You just dropped the Jenny from Forest Gump. >> She was awful. She's the most awful. She's the biggest villain of any movie. >> I You know what? I got to be honest with you. I hadn't heard that assessment until now, but if you look at what he's saying objectively, it's hard to argue against that. >> Yeah, it's it's terrible. >> You're right. There was no arc for Jenny. never trash the entire movie. >> AND HOW HAS SHE MANAGED to survive history like this? Because you're right. And people kind of Why does she get a pass? >> But she gave Forest the gold. >> What was the gold? >> The bad Forest loved Jenny. He knew he was chasing the the nasty. He didn't know it, but he still gave Forest that that finish line to get to even though he couldn't get there. >> So maybe that was Jenny's redeeming quality. Jenny helped save Forest. help save Forest. >> Man, Jenny gave Forest a baby that wasn't his and cuz then he would have been diseased. But anyway, >> her boy was smart though. >> But honestly, not like all jokes aside, Alicia Alicia had been talking to me. She wanted us all to go get screened together. >> You haven't been screened? >> Well, she Yeah, but she wanted us to do it together and get it filmed to just show people. >> We're going to do that story. >> Like we would But Alicia has been talking about doing that. How old are you? >> Um, I turned 50 uh two months ago. >> Yep. Time for a screening. Yeah. >> 40. >> Family history. >> I had a uh endoscopy and a colonoscopy, but I'm down for another one. But it was a while ago. >> Yeah. >> It was a rooted to the >> I'm 46. I need to go. I've never been >> I've never How are you, >> Craig? This is not a glass half full. You are not you not f You're not supposed TO BE INTERVIEWING ME like >> But you know, >> you're not supposed to be asking me no question. the guidelines and I know you work out and you probably eat right and you >> God God put people in places for certain reasons. It's a reason you're supposed to be here. >> Yes, we're taking you to get screened. >> We got to make it happen. >> Yeah. Well, you I'm a little disappointed in you. >> Sign me up. >> He He Well, he's gone. He's gone. It's a long time. >> Fred's a hypochondriacter. He's gone. >> It was too long ago. It was 10 years ago when I hit 40,000. >> Hang in 10 years. >> Yeah. It's been a while. >> Yeah. But you got to go >> and I've been overdo. You got to listen to your body. >> I've been overworked too with these people. >> I I am. We We are We are going to go like for sure. >> We're going to make that happen. >> Yeah. Okay. No. No. But she she's actually been pushing it for probably like >> Absolutely. By the way, >> I I I guarantee you when you do it, you you you'll be stunned at how many people say, "You know what? I saw that. I went out and got my colonoscopy colonoscopy. Thank God I did." Or this is one of my other favorites is when I get a wife or a mother who's like, "I saw you what you did on the Today's Show and I told blah blah blah and they went out and I told them I was right." He had three pups and they and the thing by the way, the thing with the colonoscopy, the best part is while they're in there, they see THE POLYPS, THEY ZAP THEM RIGHT THERE. >> RIGHT. >> It's it's it's it is it is the number one most preventable cancer there is. There is no other cancer that once they see it, they kill it. And by the way, if there is some sort of aversion to a colonoscopy, there's stool test now. You've seen the you've seen that dance in in the singing school, the stool kit, the colard kit. There's a blood test now. Like there's >> the best test is the test you're willing to take. >> Do they put you to sleep? Cuz I tighten up. >> By by the way, I'm glad you do. >> It would be strange if you didn't. And I I maintained years ago that they sell the test wrong. They sell the colonoscopy wrong. They give you propall. And let me tell you, and I'm not promoting illegal drug use. I'm not promoting any sort of like elicit propal use, but when you come up from propall, it's like you're refreshed. You're rejuvenated. It's like you don't feel anything. Like you could you could I said to the doctor that day, I was like, "You guys are selling this wrong. Don't sell the colonoscopy. Sell the propol experience. Experience. Sell the experience. AND HE WAS LIKE, "NO, NO, YOU can't do that. Can't do that. Can't do that." You know, >> but yes, the drugs are good. >> Yeah. >> This all started. By the way, guys, we're talking about family >> before we got here, which is the great thing about the show. Your family becomes your work family as well, >> right? That they're an extension of you. And when you guys have a show that you have and the closeness and the bond that you share, y'all become our family as well. You know, we recently watched Savannah Guthrie go through >> something unimaginable. >> Yep. >> To see her return though was obviously >> for fans of the show, but I think just for any decent human was a marvelous sight. >> And the love and the way you guys wrapped your arms around her. What has it meant to have her back? >> She's been in that seat as a co-host of the show um longer than I think all but one host. Like she's she's been a fixture in American homes for a long time and has become a dear dear friend. And I talked to her a couple days before she was coming back. One of the things I I said to her was obviously we're elated that you're coming back. The show's not the same without her. But the message that her coming back sends to so many people who've lost um a parent or a spouse or a child. This idea that you can you can be broken, but you can still show up. You can still put one foot in front of the other. Um not and not just for yourself. She has small children. for her her children to be able to see her overcome something so unfathomable. That's powerful. And there hasn't been a day that's passed since um Nancy went missing where someone doesn't come up to me at the grocery store or walking in Midtown and they'll say, "I'm praying for you. I'm praying for her. I'm praying for I'm praying for the family. pray and and what you what you also come to appreciate is that the faith community is real. >> Like there are more people of faith than I than I knew and and she she's Savannah's talked about that and how she felt those prayer prayers how she feels those prayers and I I just I think it's one thing to say that you are a person of faith or to say you're a Christian. It's one thing to say it, but to go out and live it and exemplify it every morning by just showing up. The God of the mountain is the God of the valley. And and that's that's what she's living every day for us to see. And so it's just it's it it really it's it's been a sight to behold. It really has because I tell you when that happened your mind starts to go to dark places and you start to think about and I just I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't I don't know if I could do it. You know, it's but but she can and she is and she will and and and we're all the better for it. So, >> yeah, man. I And thank you just for for sharing that. You know, >> we've all had people go through things. We've going through things ourselves. Uh but to watch somebody so close to you deal with a tragedy of of that level and publicly as well. I thought the way that you all handled it as family and as friends and as colleagues and as co-workers was not only classy, >> but you taught us at least you all taught me how to love someone the best you can in a very difficult time. >> When my brother died, um I was in my dressing room. It was probably about 6:30 when I got the call from his wife. I was, you know, we knew it was coming, but even if you know it's coming and when it happens, you knock on the door. Who's standing right there? Savannah. Just wanted to pray. She prayed with me. I packed my stuff up. Got down to South Carolina when Chanel Chanel Jones um her husband had terminal brain cancer. one of the first people that was at Chanel's place, Savannah Guthrie. And so it was it was what what made it what what made a terrible situation even worse was here was this person who had always been there for us when Al was sick. She I mean that's she she was she's kind of the mother hen like she's the one who's always there and we all just felt so helpless because we couldn't be there. There's nothing nothing we could do, nothing anyone could do still, which is the most frustrating part, all of it. I remember years ago when I became a part of the the the Today's Show family, this little ecosystem that has been cultivated over almost 75 years now. I remember thinking cuz I grew up watching the show and I'm like, man, these people, they don't even talk to each other off camera. They don't even when I leave here right now, going over to going over to Alroker, going over to to take abuse from him. Um, Alan Chanel, I'm going over to do a radio show with him. Like, we it's And I don't I don't know. I've been told it wasn't always like this, but we're all legit friends. Like, kids play together. Um, it does help that our kids are are of similar ages, but we all we hang out outside work. We give each other a lot of grief. lot later. I mean, if if someone ever hacked our text thread chain, >> today's show over. >> GMA would win. >> GMA would win. If if they ever if they ever got a hold of the text, man, if they saw some of the Carson Daily text with me and a lot of them sports rel, they we'd be done. Um, but we encrypt. We encrypt. J like these are not the people we want to welcome in our home. Correct. First thing in the morning. >> Correct. Especially Al Roker. Uh no. Al, you know, it's funny because Al is he's become probably my closest friend on the show. >> Uh you know, Al's in his 70s. >> Al's been in the game a long time. And he's just he's one of these guys. >> He's he's and part of it's because he's so old. He has this encyclopedic knowledge of everything. He's like an idiot savant. And if you ever And if you ever go to IMDb, >> I'm so glad you're NOT MY FRIEND. >> BUT I'M I WOULD STOP IT. WHAT I'M SAYING TO YOU, I SIT HERE ALL THE TIME LIKE YOU like he knows so much about so much like random stuff and we'll be sitting on set. It happened this morning. today he made some sort of he was getting ready to do a forecast and we come up we were coming out of the story about 50 the 50th anniversary of Charlie's Angels and he's like guys trivia question name the two characters from Charlie's Angels who were there for the original five seasons like man nobody knows that you like no >> that's a great trivia question >> and he knew he knew it's just but it's just but he's also you know like when I get arrested one day he's my first call >> you You know, like he's he's the kind of guy where if you accidentally caught a body and and it's it's in it's in your trunk, he's showing up with a shovel and a tarp. No questions. And you need one person like that in your life. >> Or if you're lucky, too. You got two people. >> I got two. >> Um it's time to ask the one of the best questions on the show. >> Well, I'll be the judge of that. >> Yeah, I'll let you judge it. your biggest pivot in life. That's that one moment you can look back on and say because this happened to me or for me, I am who I am today. >> Oh, dang. That's a good question. >> My mother years ago when I was dating somebody she didn't like, she my she used to give me all these little these books of like quotes and sayings and these parables and stuff to hang on the wall and you know like it was her passive aggressive way of trying to get me to follow the path she wanted me to be on. And I remember for Valentine's Day one year, maybe a birthday, and I still have it in my office. It was like 20 steps to lead the most successful life, listed 20 things. Pray, listen more than you talk. And number one, it was number one thing on the list, marry the right person >> because that single decision will determine true >> 80% of your happiness or your misery. And I didn't always listen to my mom, but I listened to her on that one. I married the right person. Um, and you know, my wife is, you know, my wife, you work with my wife, like she's she's very patient. She understands the business, so she understands sometimes if I'm stressed out about a big interview or I've got to travel for work or if I'm if I'm sort of snippy at home, maybe it's not about her, you know, or the kids. Like, she gives like she gets me. And so that was probably the best pivot. like I I I pivoted from a a a life of uh debauchery and bad mistakes in my early 30s finally meeting the right one. Um so yeah. >> Yeah. Well, I want to say also thank you Lindsay. We got Melvin on the show. >> So when I when I when I hit her up I was like hey I would love I like is there somebody I could reach out to get Craig on the show and she was like Melvin would love to do it. >> By the way she does that all the time. >> YEAH. WHICH IS WHY I END UP AT LIKE events at the library doing stuff for her aunt. So, I've seen it before. I listened to it before. I see why it works. >> This is great. It's just dudes sitting around talking >> that that bro, you know, >> that's because all who we are is dudes. >> This is great. >> Yeah, we ain't got a >> Yeah, we ain't got a we ain't got a lot going on. >> It's like me on a weekend because I didn't bring any beer or bourbon, >> you I but I wanted to to say before we talk about glass half full is that the thing I love about what we do is I feel like we get to see people in a different light than their work capacity. >> Yes. >> Right. When you know people always uh I get this comment all the time. Why don't you act the way you act on a pivot on ESPN? And I say because it's a different job. Right. >> I I said I'm doing a different thing. I have to be a different way. Plus, ESPN pays you more and you need that job more than this one. >> That's also true. But there's but there's a but there's a way, right, where you're supposed to I there's an energy I have to project. I have to make you think I'm really excited to be talking about the Las Vegas Raiders when they two and 12, right? I have to I don't have to do that here. And and what I learned here about you about you tonight though today is that you are layered but you're funny and you're smart and you're introspective and you have a great way of connecting. Is that the way you see your podcast going? because I was looking at the list of names and you know it's everywhere from Regina to Malcolm Gladwell whose books I've read and so you have all these different people you're going to bring together. What are you hoping people get out of being able to watch? >> So when when they approached me about doing a podcast cuz I you know I've got other jobs and that demand a lot of time. I was like okay let me drink bourbon which I love. It' be great if I could do it at home. And please do not dictate the guests because you know the today's show I okay 10% of the guests I actually you know go out and try to book and bring in people I find interesting. The podcast it's it's only people that I find genuinely interesting like Shondaanda Rimes. You know Shondaanda I've known Shondaanda for a number of years now. I don't if you ever spent any time with Shondaanda Rimes she is a fascinating human being. Like her story is just Melody Hopson. Shaq, you know, EVERY TIME I'M AROUND SHAQ, I'M LIKE, if people only knew who you really were, no one would buy anything from you. You are just I mean, it's just so we give each other grief and he was my first guest. But it's also writers. I love to read. So it's it's the writers that I find, you know, genuinely compelling. And some of them are controversial. No, I don't I don't need to sit here and do a big love fest with every guest. Like, I want to I want to go back and forth a little bit. So, it's one of those things we we start every episode. You know, this week it was Lindsey Vaughn coming off that that crash that ended her Olympic comeback and I asked her, the podcast is called Glass Half Full. I said, "Hey, in life generally, do you see glass half full? Are you a glass half full person?" And without missing a beat, she's like, "Who ever says to you their glass half empty?" M >> I'm like half my guests including Melo, including Shaq, including a lot of people who was like, well, it's not it's not half full. But she sees it half full. So when you ask someone how they view view life, glass half full, glass half empty, it gives you a little window into their soul and we use that as a launching pad in into the conversation. But I, you know, one of the frustrations about my job is that, you know, this morning, you know, we had Bob Odenkirk on, we had Ree Jean Page and and and Hi Bailey and um we get all these amazing actors and musicians. If it's a big interview, >> big I might get five, six minutes. >> Yeah, >> there's only so much you can get to in five or six minutes. Podcast, 45 minutes. I mean, talk about your childhood, talk about your parents' childhood, talk about, you know, what kind of shoes you like. It's you get to and it's interesting because I wasn't really a podcast guy up until maybe about a year, maybe a year or so ago. I was a late late comer to it. But I just and I also think that one of the reasons your podcast works and other podcasts too, we live in an age now where our attention spans are so short >> and every everything's a sound bite. And it's it's refreshing to be able to do this to ask a question and not have to edit it down to 12 seconds to fit a spot. Like we've gotten away from this. I think you could make the argument that this there may be a correlation between our departure from from this type of of conversation, a correlation between that and the tribalism that that now consumes us. But that's probably a topic for another episode. >> That's because that's because tribalism you can get in short snippets. >> Yes. >> Right. I can I can buy all the way into that >> and not know anything about it. and and then oh by THE WAY SURROUND YOURSELF only with the other people who believe the same thing. Yeah. And so there's this cacophony of of of noise that you're inundated with and then all of a sudden everyone's like wondering, well gosh, how did they get self-radicalized? >> How did they come to become so detached from reality? Well, you know how they became that detached from reality? They've been sitting at home for two years on a computer talking to other people who believe the exact same thing and they just have their worldview confirmed day in and day out and we wonder why we have problems. I should stop now. >> You know what though? I I will say this. I I know what we'll get from this. We've had so many people that are seen in a certain way because of, you know, the small snippets you get of them. Yeah. >> And then they do our show and they'll walk up to they be like, "Hey man, Craig Mel was really cool." like that. And I'm like, yeah. Like, I was like, we ain't edit that to make him seem cool. Like, that's truly what it is, man. So, thank you so much for giving us your time. I know you're extremely busy. >> Thank you. >> This was a really, really amazing conversation. >> Keep doing this. This is a public service, >> man. Thank you. >> Well, I say that, but I mean, clearly, it's not a public service. There's money being made. Um, but if it weren't money, IT WOULD STILL BE A PUBLIC SERVICE, >> MAN. Appreciate you, brother. That was awesome. Thank you so much, man. No, that was really good. >> Pleasure to witness it. Got my people feeling way got me up on a mission. Got me up knowing me. I got the key on the vision. I can trust limitless [ __ ] it witness it. Got my people feeling militant way up. Me up.