He Built Lovable, the $6B AI Company Letting Anyone Create Software | Anton Osika

He launches this as a business and I couldn't believe it at first, but it's making $300,000 per month. There's this, oh, I could take jobs mindset. I think this is the wrong perspective. >> Just having an idea and building something without the barriers. A lot of people feel stuck. They're sitting there frozen. >> There's so many people who have finally been able to do something they've been wanting to do, I think, for their whole life. It's a new tool to create economic opportunities. The 99% were never able to create software, but now anyone can create software. They just need an idea and they need to Welcome to a very special episode of the AI Download. I'm your host, Shirro Lazar. Now, we ended season 1 and we're already back. That's because I had the opportunity to interview someone pretty incredible, the founder and CEO of one of the fastest growing AI companies in the world, Anton Oika from Lovable. I know I'm freaking out. I was freaking out and it happened. The interview is amazing. We're about to play it. But Lovable is basically replacing software. They say that they want to be the last software that ever exists. And literally within minutes, you can create anything you want to. You just put in some prompts and it could create a product, a site, and not just something basic. We're talking like all the bells and whistles. Something that would have taken a year and like millions of dollars takes a few minutes. So, he built this. We're going to be getting into what Lovable is all about, what the future holds. We of course talk about work and losing jobs. You know, the questions on everyone's minds, and so much more. I just love this interview and episode, and I hope you do, too. Enjoy. Anton, you're starting my year on a high note. The first interview of 2026. I'm so honored to be talking to you. I mean you are like the I don't know uh it feels like the king of AI right now with one of the fastest growing companies it seems uh what in Europe is it in the world would you say >> so so we were apparently the first to the fastest to hit $und00 million in revenue and then since then I don't know what the data says exactly but we we hit 200 at around our anniversary since launch and now two months later we're at 300 >> that is incredible 300 million ARR >> but I think The I mean the more interesting fact is how many people have their lives changed throughable. We just went through the lighthouse building here in LA and there's so many people who have finally been able to do something they've been wanting to do I think for their whole life which is to create and create more things than like a text document and create real applications that come from their creativity and and businesses on top of that. >> Yeah, I mean I agree. I consider myself a creator. I love the idea of just having an idea and building something without the barriers and not needing a ton of money to do it. A lot has stopped me as a creative in the past from building, right? Because you would need to raise money, maybe hire tech folks, engineers, like slows you down. >> Yeah. That has slowed a lot of us down or not even slowed us down, stopped people, right? >> Yeah. I I was here on the airport flying to LA and someone comes up to me which happens sometimes and and this time it's actually the founder of owner.com. >> Okay. >> So they have tens of thousands of restaurants that they help with their websites and so on. He was raving about that he had built a full new product line over the weekend over with 8 hours of lovable and it it left me super energized to see that real founders are making their businesses succeed because of what we're doing. Do a lot of people recognize you now? Is this something new for you? >> That's very new and especially weird when I go to I I I live in Stockholm and then I when I come to London or San Francisco, there's always people who recognize me which is yeah a bit different. >> What is that like for you now to be so known? I mean you started out as an engineer obviously behind the scenes. Did you think you were going to be this front-facing person with a company that is as big as it is right now? What how much billion 6.6 billion valuation you got from your recent raise? Yeah, I never expected to be a public figure like I am now. Um, so far it's not been um like as dreadful as I was afraid. It's it's been just me focusing on the company and where we want to take Lovable, which is to be the simplest way to make AI and software work for you. >> You want to it to be the last software ever. That's what you say. >> Yeah. Yeah. So how we think about it is that uh if you want anything out of the software you should be able to go to lovable you should be able to explain your business problem your idea and then it brings that into reality and that means that it's your last final destination for anything you need to do with software but you are the one create creating which is I think a very important part of it. >> So yeah let's go back to the beginning uh 2023 at this point right >> that's when I started the company. >> Yes. You started the company 2023. We're 2026 now. I don't know when you're all watching this, but to have that super growth so quickly, I think that was mind-blowing for a lot of people, right? Like became unicorn status very quickly. How quickly? Can you go through the timeline to give people a sense? >> Yes, sure. So, so uh we launched the product in end of 2024 and now one uh year 3 months later um we we're reaching um more than 300 million people uh are go visits to pages applications built on lovable every month. >> Wait, how many >> around 300 million >> 300 million people? So that the visits to the applications and then in terms of the builders who are you going to level to create yeah >> that's more than 130,000 per uh per day new projects created. >> So a lot of the world is unlovable basically >> that's what's happening right now >> right and so I know it's not about the money but I feel like a lot of people look at that like the fact that it did grow so quickly also because you a lot of people say AI companies are losing money right now. It seems like are you losing money or making money or how does that work? So uh so I look back at the financials for last year and it's very healthy business I can say and we're not geared for profitability right now but it's it's a healthy business and we what we're obsessing about is to look at all the different types of builders the um idea people who are creating new businesses the entrepreneurs that are helping accelerate their business. And now we're seeing a lot of designers, product managers, but also operations, finance and and in marketing at at large companies. So really like enterprise companies are adopting Lovable and uh places like Microsoft, they're trusting us with their workflows and we're looking at all of those and being like, what can we do more to make them succeed even more with Lovable? >> Yeah. And when you started it, obviously it was just kind of a what an experiment. you were playing around as an engineer to show that you don't need your other engineers might not like not have a job but like you're gonna be able to build things really easily. >> So the idea that came to me after playing around I I've been building with AI since like a decade but but when the mo the AI was starting to be able to understand you and reason. Then I played around and then it struck me one morning that I shouldn't be building something that accelerates building software for engineers. I should be building for all a lot of my friends were super creative and have a lot of good ideas that they've been struggling to get into reality. Um, and create an interface that's so simple, which is very hard to make it so simple, it just works for anyone. And that's the 99% who don't who don't code. >> Yeah. >> And then I biked over to Fabia, my co-founder, in the morning and I called him and said, "Let's go on a walk. Look, this is what the future is like. We're not going to create software by sitting down and meticulously writing a very specific syntax for code. We're going to be having a conversation and in a visual interface de develop our our ideas in software and iterate really fast with the people who are going to use that software so that it goes from an idea to something you can try to something that creates positive emotions and that is referred to in tech a bit as lovable software. So that so that's the story behind I know how you have your uh what is it? Minimal minimal lovable product. Correct. >> What is it? You have the progression. Instead of minimal viable product, it's minimal lovable and then what? Lovable and then maximum lovable or something like that. >> Absolutely lovable. >> Absolutely. You got this. Yeah. >> What was the uh I guess inspiration behind even the name cuz it feels like a good vibes name. We need more good vibes here. I mean fundamentally we talk a lot about this at the company that software should be about human emotions in the end and that's like this fundamental driver kind of almost everything that we do is are the emotions and that's what you should be thinking about in the end when you're creating software for someone else and I think the name is playing at that uh that uh fact as well. >> Were your engineer friends mad that you created something that you they feel maybe could take their job? They love it too because it's such an accelerant and you can abstract yourself away and while Lob is building you can think about what's the next thing and how should this how can you use AI in the thing you're building in new ways. So it's actually a beloved product by engineers as well. >> I know I mean you are a hero to the engineers like I mean I feel like they all obviously look up to you and what you've built and you have a big team. Well you started out with what 15 people at. What revenue were you at 15 people? Cuz I find that amazing. You were you had 15 people in your company. >> Yeah. We launched the product with eight people. Yeah. And then we quickly grew to one million, two million. I think we grew to like 10 around 10 some 10 people, something like that. >> And so yeah, every million there's maybe another person or something like that. No. No. But I mean to have a team like that at that level of revenue in the past would be unheard of, right? >> And so can you speak to that? the ability to basically at this day and age because of AI have a pretty kind of like a team that isn't necessarily huge like this hundreds of people. I mean even Sam Alman has said that in the future there'll be a unicorn company or even what's the next stage to unicorn like >> the decorn company like you know $1 billion company with one person. Obviously you don't just have one person but do you think that's possible? >> Everything's possible for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I I hope lovable is the tool that's used by that founder that builds that first first company. Um, something that I'm myself surprised by is how much the how fast the product is evolving, how fast lovable itself is changing. Things I couldn't dream about doing 6 months ago. I just try it out and then it works. I said something like, can you create a generate AI generated marketing video? Um, first create a script and then create a voice over for that marketing video and then in one prompt I get the marketing video. >> Wait, you guys also have videos. Wait, sorry, let's back up because I'll show you. I created something on lovable. >> That was my question for you. >> I have it right away available cuz I put it public so it's easy to show. It's still a work in progress though, so don't judge me. >> So I have a company what's trending. >> Mhm. >> We cover what's trending online, social media. I've always wanted to build a dashboard for data intelligence tracking and in the past it would cost so much money right to build that >> and even in the past there's been companies we're talking to that maybe wanted a merger or by us because they're the they provide the AI and the tech stack >> but guess what because of lovable I could build it now I don't need them now but so here this is what I built it's the what's trending real time social pulse >> right >> we're pulling in from Twitter Tik Tok Reddit threads it's still a work in progress Instagram and the idea is to have a real-time dashboard of what's trending online and then also as you go and I need to fix this but you have AI recaps of each story >> as well. >> Yeah. So you could kind of understand why is it trending right now. So this would be something that's for my my editors, my social media uh team to look at to help them figure out, you know, what's trending basically online instead of going to every single platform. Can I try something with your with your app? >> I think it looks super powerful, but I have one prompt. >> Okay. Yes. >> Lovable. Can you make this look prettier? >> Yes. I wasn't there yet. Okay. >> Prettier. Okay. Was thinking >> we might have to buy more credits. Do you think you could hook me up? >> I'm happy to hook you up. >> People are hungry for credits. Like people are addicted. They just need give me my credits. Give me my Right. Is this >> you get five new every day, you know? >> Okay, but maybe that's not enough. People are scrambling like it's like >> the AI is expensive. But um we we want to make it as cheap as and powerful as possible. And uh and we recently had to like face this decision. Are we going to make it uh I think like 60% more expensive for uh for us because it will be would became more powerful and uh since it would be be more powerful for our users we were like yes of course let's make it that that cost us a lot of money. >> So you have this idea you put it out there like were you surprised at the response? What is the feeling as an individual when this is happening? we were growing faster than I expected and uh we just continued to grow and there were multiple bumps of like oh now we're growing even faster and for me and the team that was like it was obviously super exciting. Um the the reason for this is not surprising to me and I think humans really love to build. We're living in a world now where lovable creates so much new economic opportunities for people and that's that's I think the uh fundamental uh driver for our growth where we're seeing there's a founder I know Allan he built an AI healthcare staffing company they reached $1 million in revenue after just 5 months of existence he was able to build this with lovable as his technical co-founder and there are all of these builder stories of people uh who have been wanting to build for their businesses And now they can because of lovables and that that's like the underlying driver and there if you look far into the future I and we're already seeing this that a lot of people are just building because they love to create. >> Yeah. >> It's very rewarding to have an idea or be creative and then be being able to express that and and you you me asked about video before like software is so so all encompassing. You can create videos in lovable for as an example. >> See I haven't done that yet. >> Yeah. >> I I clearly need to do that. So I mean if you're creative you can ask for most things and then if you set your mind to understanding how lovable works all the ins and outs of how to use it to its full potential there's very few things that I find myself being not able to do. So then two things to simplify this like because you've said that it it's going to be the last software like that's a description you said it's your technical co-founder give me right now how would you describe lovable with where it's at and then all the functionalities >> so lovable lets you take an idea uh for software application and then we describe it to an AI and then you get it fully working and it's not just working for you you can send the link you can publish it you can one click get the domain name for it so that it's out on the internet and that includes things like adding payments, adding sending emails, adding AI to the application that you build. You can build jt clones in lovable a image generations and similar in lovable create a social network in at a smaller scale but the social network at lovable >> huh >> and what I did yesterday the night was that I asked Ben Faluk who said like I'm super foreign to all this AI um tools over dinner and I said but do you have a personal website and I said and then he said no I I asked Lavable to say can you research Ben rads and create a website based on what he's done and then lovable goes out and then he creates a very artistic because he's done a very artistic guy website and he and he was like wow this is the new mode of creation and and now I think I got one more person addicted to love >> that's amazing I love that because it's it is so easy I mean it this is the vibe coding era right yeah >> did you create the phrase vibe coding who created it I feel like you're kind of known synonymous for vibe coding >> yeah so there there's an researcher who's very He writes a lot on Twitter about his observations. Andre Karpathy, he's coined that term by coding. I think he said this tweet some while back which was English is the new hottest programming language and for for engineers that's a very like ah very interesting and then he coined the term vibe coding and I think the term is a bit polarizing where it implies that it's very casual is maybe not emphasizing that you're building something on quality but that's not what what we're seeing now um I I know one company that's has 80,000 thousand real estate agents globally. Uh, and they're called X Reality and they're operating in dozens of markets, I think hundreds of websites and they were planning to recreate their entire platform for the websites and they would the provider said it could would take a year to do that full replatform. The the marketing leader there, the VP of marketing, they they found Lovable and then they they were like, "But wait, this this shouldn't take one year." and they built out a full replatforming where they could save two million dollars. >> And this is a very rush a very large company, right? Yeah. And it's that's that's what we're seeing where companies like XRT, HCA, healthcare, and a lot of Fortune 100 companies are are building high quality software and then it has to be very trusted and very secure, right? >> Yeah. Oh, so you're mentioning so many things. one how quickly it does take cuz like even that thing I created >> it's a prompt 10 not even 10 minutes it's a few minutes to do it very quick >> done the dashboard now features enhanced glassorphism effects I don't even know what does it look like >> to be a founder of one of the hottest AI companies out there right now what does your life look like >> I spend a lot of my time w with a great leadership team and um I care a lot about culture and how we how how we work together. Uh that means creating an environment where people can just autonomously take decisions and use their best judgment to improve the product, help our customers. Um and I I do that by like jumping in and working with people hands-on and I do it by hiring the right people and onboarding them >> which I I think is so important. I feel like there's a lack of conversation from a lot of these companies who are leading in AI around uh possibly culture. We don't hear that a lot, right? Uh so why is that so important to you as a leader and someone building in the space? >> I mean I want to build a legacy I think very very long term and then the all work gets done through how you work together. So I think that's very important >> and it's something that like outlasts the I mean success of the company like how is this a place where people love to work together and they push to do more than they think were possible. That environment is something I I try to create. What does it take to be a lovable employee team member right now? Which means like you you basically working at the the hottest AI company. What does it take? >> There are different roles at Lovable. Of course, if you're working inside of building the product, developing that, um, I look for people who really care about uh the craft, really care about who we are building for in the end, and they care about how their team works. Like it's not just like I'm doing this thing and some of my managers telling me something, but you um when you're seeing someone around you who you think could be unlocked or who could learn something, you go out and work together with them. So that really carrying is like a specific trait that I'm I'm looking for. >> Um and then being um an early adopter of using AI and understanding what's possible learning new things quickly is something I also think is very important. There is also something in terms of so in our company values we call talk about driver not a passenger and some people are very good at thinking end to end and being proactive about solving problems that uh instead of just saying oh this is how it is uh I'm going to wait until someone else takes initiative. You've also said that sometimes having started your own company could actually hinder you like you don't have that growth mindset because you're constantly like I know what's happened when you know almost too much. Sometimes not knowing a lot is helpful. >> Yes. >> Not knowing, you know what I mean? Does that make sense? >> Yeah. I I think not overthinking things, executing and then learning very fast and being being open to adjusting >> uh being okay with a bit of chaos uncertainty that I think that's an advantage especially in these days where many people are doing things for the first time in some sense with now with AI available. >> So how many hours of sleep do you get? >> I have an order ring so I wake up looking at this every morning but it's between uh four and seven and a half. Oh, that's pretty good. How do you like I don't even know how I would sleep in your position because I'd be like, you're on this rocket ship right now. >> Yeah, it's harder to sleep when there's a lot of lot of things going on. But it's it's clear to me that um the quality of my work increases when I sleep a lot. So, it's worth prioritizing it. And I think even like doing things that make me sleep better is something I prioritize. Getting in exercise, uh being outdoors in light is something that helps to fall asleep later. I prioritize both both of those at all >> because I feel like if you're uh you're a coder engineer and you're also a founder like just notorious for being up all hours. >> Yeah. I don't think that's a good choice. I mean I mean maybe you can handle it for some time. Um but but for me the right choice is to would be like take care of myself >> which is very rare. Who taught you that? No, I I just learned over time that if I'm not sleeping or like I'm not getting exercise, I show up much worse to my colleagues and and in like my focus. >> You talked about having this unique mindset right now in the age of AI. What are the skills that people need to have right now if they want to succeed whether it be building an AI or getting hired by an AI company? I think there are many different strategies, but I I'm certain that trying out tools and being like, what can I do here? Can I build something? Can I get attention to what I'm building, making people care about that? And um talking to an AAB to understand what is it that make people care? And then to actually doing that, getting that things done is very is valuable across the board. And then I often recommend people to find someone who's like-minded to them that want to work with AI or they want to start a company. Um, and that's like social dynamic and or being a part of a community in general is a great way to make you yourself just staying excited and being the best version of yourself. So that's a timeless advice. >> Yeah. So for a a youngish person, timeless advice, wisdom, right? Already you have so much wisdom. So yeah, uh being curious, trying out tools, having community, it's so important because you bounce ideas off of uh people. >> Yeah. You learn, you have that like social accountability dynamic where you want to be the better version of yourself when someone is there with you and share that ambition. >> I've also seen you say uh saying no, right? There's a time to say yes and a time to say no. when you figure that out. >> I mean, as as a company, when especially when you know what's working, um, just focus and say doing the things that are important all the way and just keep going at it is very is crucial to make to deliver a really high quality of something. H So yeah, it requires saying no a lot. >> But you said yes obviously at a certain point. >> Let's zoom into starting a successful business. Um I think there are a lot of things that you could be doing right um and there's probably before you know what is going to be successful you should be trying different things >> but you should be it's important to be quite systematic and say this is the thing I believe most in I'm now going to make see if customers if I can get customers to really care about this thing and and then keep going at it until you're quite confident that no there is another idea and other direction that's that's and and then and then trying that out. Um and that there's like some mixed discipline of saying uh I'm going to focus on this thing but also trying out many different things and I don't know the exact magic versus me but just being aware of that there is a balance that it's very very critical for new companies is is important. >> Yeah. Well, you seem to figure uh something out but like all right the big question is and I'm sure you get this. It's such an overdone question is about jobs, right? And including we're in Hollywood right now. Everyone is freaking out about AI. >> Do you feel like you have this conversations >> at all? I know I have. I'm the one person in my group that's like AI. I'm in AI. I have a show and everything. People are like, "Tell me why I shouldn't be scared about AI." >> I think AI is going to change a lot of things. Yeah. And there's this uh ohi is going to take jobs mindset for some people. I think it's the wrong perspective of a fixed a fixed pie mindset. And we're now like baking entirely new pies that you can take a slice of. And some examples of this is the founders are building completely new companies. There is a person called Damian who lives in an island outside of in Sweden. Yeah. And and he had like he wanted to um create a a not a photo but a framed portrait of his dog. He like as a Renaissance painting. >> He saw Yeah. >> He saw it. >> Yes. And then he uses creating and then he connected to like a print so they can be printed and sent home to him. And then he he launches this as a business. And I couldn't believe it at first, but he has so many people who want portraits on their wall of their dogs as a painting that is making $300,000 per month on this business. Uh and this is one example of hundreds of founders that are completely reimagining what is it like to build a completely new business. >> Yeah. >> Uh and people who are reinventing their careers. And if you look far into the future, I think we should all as humans be super excited about what AI is going to be able to create for us and how much positive change is going to result in. And if you are in one of the roles where where AI is like impacting, oh, it's going to do this thing automatically. Um then especially I think you should lean into what is very exciting about and what you can do now with AI and find a community of people who are like-minded excited about that. >> Yeah, I think that's important to say because a lot of people feel stuck and they're it's just they're sitting there frozen >> almost. >> Uh and it doesn't help all these headlines that pop up and I'm sure you're asked this like Yeah. all the time. And so you're saying that it's possible to obviously build businesses, not just passion on lovable. People are just obviously doing their own thing and like vibe coding on the side like gaming. You know, people are just there coming up with ideas all the time. But you think that it's the future where people are rebuilding their businesses like a Shopify or like people are building on Amazon or Google, right? >> Yeah. Great. That it's a new tool to create economic opportunities. It's it's like a new economy of the 99% were never able to create software and it's still over the last few decades software has been the the major driver of enterprise value and but now now anyone can create software they just need an idea and they need to set their minds to taking it all the way to make it quality software. >> Do you think that a company will still have value if they don't like own meaning um you know sometimes it's like well you need to if if you're just wrapping it around chat you know an AI company around chatb it's not valuable anymore. We know that. Do you think in the future if someone's building on a Lovable, they're going to say, "Well, Lovable is valuable, but you building that company on Lovable isn't valuable." Does that make sense in terms of raising money for your company? >> No, I'm I'm confident that you don't you shouldn't be thinking like that. You should be thinking about who is who is my customer? How can I make them care about what I'm doing? And there's a lot of value when you are like on the ground when the the last in in person part is is what creates value together with AI. I'm seeing nurses for creating like patient journey apps and and then rolling that out across the their team. And that's creating a lot of value for um for their their patients and for themselves. And that's the type of transformation that's creating a lot of value as an example as Yeah, I love these examples. I think it's really important to bring humanity into it. >> Also, what do you say to people that again are asking and again such a basic question, so I apologize, but it's a real question about the the bubble. Is it just hype? Are we just in a bubble? >> If you take loables as an example, >> um around 300 million visits to level apps every month and that's that's not that's not like oh someone vibe coded something cool. This is real production software. And um if you take lovable as an example internally we are changing how we work and taking a software we used to pay for and making a better version of that where that works best for our specific use case. If we're quickly growing organization is changing I need to for example keep um an eye on like what are the names of everyone who's joining. So I I'm looking at the entire organization who's doing what, responsible for what and then I have flash cards of uh people who recently joined that I should practice their names of and that's the case for hundreds of thousands of companies. That's how they're working now. Um and uh what we're seeing coming out this year is going to be even more powerful. uh we're going to see a new type of interaction between the software application that you built and AI where you can you access it like you do now and and you also can talk to an AI that has context about the application you're in and everything else that you kind of uploading to the connecting to your AI system and that's that I mean this is just >> so that's the AI agent that's the chat that you're working with to build this >> so you you're both using you're using the stay tuned for this stay tuned for more but there there's both the chat and the software and they working together in a new new way >> without even you playing with it with it. Are they going to talk to each other without you there and just like >> I mean yeah there's going to be some mix where it you ask something then it goes out and talks to other uh part pieces of the software where you have in our case for example I need to know who's working on this initiative and I can ask an AI and then it goes brings me to the view of like seeing this visually in front of me. Let's go through those current uh I guess capabilities and like what's coming up right uh this year or even further down the line. Dream ideas for lovable. So currently all the things >> I have to say the biggest problem that I would like to have solved is for people to know the capabilities of like what's now possible with what I did six months ago um is nothing compared to what I can do now. We launched yesterday and a lot lot of new capabilities which is are about how you can let ask Louble to go out and work for like 10 minutes for 20 minutes. You can queue up like I wanted you to do all of these things. For example, uh browsing and clicking around in application to make sure everything works. And these are this lets you build much more complicated software obviously. And um well on top of this there are a lot of really interesting ways that you can ex like prompt that you can explain oh look I'm an Anton I'm I'm CEO of lovable and I don't know what's the right solution here but could you give me a lot of different examples on how I can prepare for this podcast show for example and make it interactive and fun for myself >> luck of those interesting things where and then then you can ask it like okay then try them out and make decide which ones of those you think you I should actually be using. >> It's not just about you being the prompt expert and maybe having the perfect idea, but then possibly they giving you it giving you suggestions. >> Exactly. And and then I mean there are many different ways of of prompting it like, "Oh, I'm working in marketing at this company. What do you think I should do? Should I launch a new website for a new campaign or um how would I integrate the lovable application that I built here into our existing system?" and then it help you get there by explaining how things work. So there's like there's so much potential in just like what's what you can do now. But but us humans, we have to figure out how it fits into our the rest of what we're doing. And but then if you're looking at what's coming out later this year, it's actually hard to predict. But is we are going to see lovable and the software that's built by lovable being much more integrated into different lovable applications your own personal like knowledge base your external brain of everything that you do. Um and uh this is I mean this is going to be very powerful for us unleashing more of our creativity uh creating more inspiring things and we continue to be across everything in a company finance operations marketing uh and product design which which is has been now um and and completely new economical opportunities like founders building new companies. >> Okay, that's amazing. And you're going also enterprise. Right now it's individuals, a lot of individuals and small companies using it. Small business. >> Um but then you the plan is to also go enterprise. >> Yes. So we're seeing um dozens of really large companies who are using Lavable and um most of them they just sign up and they they because they see like wow this is creating so much value in my role at the at the company. So this is the I think the largest group are people who work at large companies >> and doing examples of maybe their vision to show their boss hey look we can do it. >> Yeah. So many companies have replaced slides with glovable apps that are work a bit like the interactive slides and that's like where it starts and then uh when you're communicating about an idea for something to build an internal tool then prototype is always the best way to be aligned like oh is this the right thing? We're testing with some users and uh we're also seeing really large companies. There's a company doing education called Qroup. The founder he sat down and built out a premium version with love of their product and then they made $3 million in 48 hours. >> What >> this is existing large companies doing customerf facing. >> So I think as a creator and a small business myself of course all this AI is an unlock for me, right? But yeah, of many people again from bigger companies will listen and who maybe had the agency that was building the app or the site and just go, "Oh god, I need to find a new job." Right. >> If you're an agency, right? >> Yeah. An agent like meaning they were the ones building the site that had the year contract for $5 million. What do they do? >> I think if you're using AI and you're like an expert in how everything goes together, this is a new opportunity for you. This is a completely new opportunity. But but that's the thing. Roles have to be re will be reinvented. they always have. >> And the the mindset of like, wow, this is super powerful is the what's going to make everyone be more productive, make us live in a better society because so much in in the world is software and the software is often quite bad. Um, and it's going to make us humans that have to adapt more like happy about what's happening because it's ultimately creating a like a better econ economy for everyone. >> Yeah, this is a very optimistic uh perspective and I'm a tech optimist. So h how do we get there? Because it feels like the world feels chaotic, right? A lot of not so good things happening and then people are scared of AI taking over, robots, existential crisis, you know, here in the US. Not to go down the whole list, uh you know, it's the regulation and how do we make sure kids are protected, all this stuff. What is your take as a leader in this space on all of that? I think we are going to have very important you already have very important jobs that need more people like in healthare in education and um in advancing science I think also that's like where a lot of the good comes from health and so on and that there's like an an endless appetite for making putting more people working on the on these things and if AI makes us as humanity and now soon I I couldn't I could imagine like twice as effective as harvesting resources and putting that into um like houses and healthcare and similar with the help of robots in some cases. Yeah. Um that's going to make that possible and have have much more people working in education and um just taking care of each other as humans. So that's the future we're going towards and I think that is uh I there's no denying that that that is a better future. It is change is hard for some people but if you think about like oh I'm trying these tools is the way for me to be excited and letting human human literally human creativity get out and create things is a timeless thing that we will be enjoying in 1,000 years and that that's what I'm going to lean into um with these tools is is I think the the way to uh go go through that transition in only a positive way. You live in Europe also where uh you know healthcare and all these things the debate isn't there right it's here in the US it's a whole other story as someone who decided to have his company to stay in Europe versus come to Silicon Valley what is your take on the approach like in the EU has the AI act they're doing interesting things right what is your take on what's happening in the EU and where you are versus like again the US's approach to AI and yeah the I would say the tension here right now and you probably know what I'm talking Europe is a great place to build a company first of all in in Sweden specifically there's a lot of I think design taste is what people talk about lovable where it's very hard to make something advanced become simple and there's a long-term thinking across employees who work at lovable they're not just there to make a career and like get a promotion they're there to build the company and I think that's a big part of why we're successful um in terms of the culture and so on affecting AI act uh people are are priv private aware and think a lot in terms of security. I think I'm not the one to ask for what's happening in the world because I'm so pursued into how do I makes lovable successful and make high integrity choices for lovable. When me and Fabian started the company, we kind of pledged that like okay, we are going to um try to make lovable helpful to support this transition into AI for all of humanity because I mean my personal mission is like unlock uh all the potential of humanity and uh that's the wider thing that we're now making it possible for us to have that positive impact as lovable is becoming more successful. So what does AI ethics and AI integrity mean to you in this era? What I think about in like in that entire field is that if we're building intelligence that more part more intelligent than humans and we give it a lot a lot of control and we don't have a system where like lot where humans are fundamentally in control uh then there's a risk that it starts to think oh the only thing I should care about is like producing more computer chips or something like that. Um, and there those are like the the problems that I know that the the big labs who are like pushing the limits of the of the pure intelligence are taking very very seriously and and rightfully so. But as long as there's humans who are in control of AI and we're already I think using AI to become better at understanding what future do we want like okay we have we have the first of all politically we have the US we have China and like this are superpowers that are kind of kind of peaceful and friendly with each other which is very good like how do we how is this going to play out AI help us make sure that we get a future that is best for everyone I think that's going to be the way that we play much more positive some games uh across the entire planet and we can go out and um put humans on on other solar systems and so on as well in the far into the future and and AI is going to be this critical enabler for all of that. One more comment maybe I think fundamentally us humans aren't so good at thinking through what are uh the things that we like what's the future that we want to live in what are the things we agree on and that's because we have this like biases like no you are wrong ah like and we get angry at each other uh and then we play negative some games and we go to war because we're like no this part of the planet should be controlled xy like that's super super stupid and more intelligence is going to make it easier for us to understand that and coordinate towards a future that we want to have. >> That's the hope. I was in the EU and like looking at their cyber warfare and it's crazy there's governments grooming AI. You know this is happening right >> governments are grooming AI. >> Yeah. Like Russia is grooming AI so it could you know continue to spew misinformation and all that. Well, they'll put out so much information and as AI is grabbing that information, that becomes the reality that people are searching for. Isn't that crazy? >> Yeah. I I my trust in the people who are building the the AI systems um that like we're making sure that we're not listening to the spew like the misinformation, but there's the serious risk here to take into account. How does lovable maintain uh positivity and camaraderie with their I guess user base and community um and trust? >> I think the trust and taking the right decisions, not moving like too fast, but taking the right decisions is ultimately how you build a strong brand, a strong community. And that's how I'm trying to orient the entire company to towards that with a very very long long-term thinking. And uh if you're enabling people to do more things then being more responsible is fundamentally um like what you have to do. We've seen this many times before with payments marketplaces and so on becoming possible. And now you can create anything with software and you can create it faster. So, so that makes it even more important that to think about like how do we make sure people are bu are building things that are are good and how are we can we be certain that the things that are built cannot be abused. So how we what we're doing at lovable is we make the software build in security from the ground up and there's a lot of details in how that works. all the software scanned for vulnerabilities uh and you can only put in like API secrets keys in in a safe way. Um and and then we also make sure that all the projects are scanned for like is this a someone trying to manipulate someone else or is this a bad website? We have like a system for that and so far it's working well for us. We have really large companies like Doge Telecom like very old uh to 2,000 people doing product and engineering using lovable and Microsoft just increased how many people are using lovable. Uh so uh yeah that's how we think about it. >> And then also people I think are worried creatives like if I put my idea in there someone else is going to take it. Should they be worried about that using a tool like lovable? >> If you put something into lovable um unless you actively set it to like a share it is going to be only for you. So that's um yeah that's not something to worry about. >> Okay that's good to know. That's good to know. >> It's not like we're putting into the AI then it learns it either. >> Okay. Yeah. Can you explain the difference between some other platforms and how it's maybe training the AI off the information you're inputting and how that is different from I can actually explain how data is being used. Um when someone uses lovable we we are looking at what's happening or not us but the AI is looking at what's happening just to uh evaluate if the system is working well or not so that we can compare different versions of lovable and in that way uh we're always picking the version what makes users most most successful. So in in our inner Slack, we're always seeing like, oh, okay, we tried this change, but it made and it made more thumbs up votes or more people publish their page pages and that's how we're using the data currently as lovable. >> Yeah, because people are just so also worried about privacy. I feel like there's a a lot of questions around that. >> Yeah, imagine that you're doing mostly what we doing as well as they're not look like taking the data and training on it. But that you should check that with >> Do you guys do all the AI founders just get together and talk? >> No. Uh I meet a lot of AI founders. So >> no I mean the top ones like Sam all are you like in a chat WhatsApp chat together being like hey what's going on? No >> with some founders. Yeah but it's not not like very high frequency. >> No not the ones like uh Deis from Google from Deep Mind. >> I Yeah it's great. >> There's a a lot of people building out no code systems. What do you say about people that are like there's competition out there? >> What do you say? What's the response? What we're actually seeing is that people who keep coming back and compare lovable is they're saying like, "Wow, this actually works. It can do all the things. It works better." And it's we've been able to make it like just work. There's this simplicity to it. >> And that's fundamentally how we work. We don't think about what exists out there. We just make uh put a lot of hard engineering into making something complex simple and listen by listening to what are different people trying to do, how can we make them be able to do more of that. >> Do you use an AI at all? Do you have any AI tools you use? >> Yeah, I mean I talk to my computer uh a lot. Yeah. >> And then I ask it like, "Oh, how should I think about this?" And then it it gives me some way some good ideas. And then I use Lovable like literally every day to to create to see if new ideas make sense for our customers. You know, >> you're a super user. Let's just say that. >> I think so. >> Finally, what's your boldest prediction for AI and creativity in the next 5 to 10 years? Where is this all going? I know we're just getting started in letting human creativity do much more and um now people are building with lovable they're building a lot of like I think ideas into reality. We're going to see that the step of actually getting a lot of users and putting it into like a shared ecosystem of um applications that are where people are using between each other expand and how you put AI into the products that you build expand and that's um I think it's a new era of software creation. >> Any other final words or inspiration for people or advice before we leave? >> I'm just super excited every time I come to a place like this and people are coming grabbing me and saying look what I built. This is changing how we work at my company. This is I'm building a completely new company on on top of Loveable. And here's just my beautiful app. That's fun. And I I hope I can change more people's lives by unlocking human creativity. >> Wow, what a nice guy. And honestly, this was not a sponsored episode or anything. I'm just really amazed by the entire journey of building this company and I had the opportunity to interview him. So, thank you to the team at Lovable for making that happen. And hopefully you are also inspired to build something and stay curious in this age of AI where still there is so much fear-mongering. I talk about that constantly. And the point of this podcast is one to give you access to leaders like Anton and the builders behind these companies so you can understand who these people are and I can try to humanize them at least because that doesn't happen a lot. And then again, you remain open to what's possible because it's when you have that growth mindset and you are open that great things happen. It does not happen when you're scared and when you're closed off and you're when you're holding on to the past. Thank you again for watching and listening wherever you are. Again, subscribe wherever you get this podcast because we have so many more episodes coming up and of course leave a rating and review. That's how I get to continue building this show independently. I also have a weekly newsletter. So, even though I might be on a little break from the podcast, you can actually go to my weekly newsletter to get insights on what I think about the future of the creator economy, AI, and so much more. It's called the Alpha. Link in the show notes. And that's about it from me right now. So, thank you again. I'm Sher Lazar, and I'll see you next time on the AI download.