Investment Banker Thought He Failed Until Bitcoin

When I finally had a chance to catch my breath and and really take a look at my own life, that moment when you realize as an adult you're just not going to make it is humbling. And when you realize you have to go through a whole bunch of ego deaths to survive or to become the best version of yourself that you can, I think those are the moments that you know, darkest before the dawn. And with Bitcoin [music] as as the tether, the future is limitless, boundless, and beautiful. But without it, the world's really dark place. So, I'm going to take that position for now at least that we need to maintain 51% in self-custody in individuals' hands through time. Today, I'm excited to welcome Chad to the podcast. Chad is an ex-investment banker and trader and a Bitcoin advocate who believes Bitcoin is a forcing function for truth and accountability. Welcome to the Bitcoin Edge, Chad. Thanks for having me. So, tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to Bitcoin. I'm going to try to give you the TLDR version. It wasn't until 2023 that um I called up one of my friends and I said, "Hey, I'm I'm not going to make it. You know, I'm not going to live a lifestyle that I want to live." And I couldn't figure out why at that point. I'd gone to great schools. I've had some titles that or job functions that you would think would would get me there, etc. And they never did. And he's like, "Let me do some math." And that's always his answer cuz he's a math genius. And he comes back and he said to me, "I want you to have 30% of your assets in Let's just call it Bitcoin." He said crypto, but we'll call it Bitcoin. And I was like, "If this was coming from anybody other than you, I would tell them to go somewhere else." And I'm like, "Okay, cuz it's coming from him and I know he knows what he's doing. I'm going to go dive as hard as I can." And I didn't really know where to go. So, I went to I'd heard about Crypto Twitter and I hopped on there. And shout out to to Fred and British who actually, you know, first kind of caught my attention. And I don't know, within 2 months of just immersive reading and I read The Bitcoin Standard at that point. I was like, "Oh, you idiot." I was fiat-minded until 2023. I touched Bitcoin, heard about Pizza Day, I was there. I heard on the newsdesk and I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." And we could talk about all those reasons I missed, but that's on me. I was fiat-minded and it's the shift from fiat mind to a hard money mind that really changed my life. Oh, that's amazing. I love that you are a little bit newer to Bitcoin. What do you think we can tell people that will help them see how Bitcoin is so revolutionary? Because we all live in a fiat world, we don't know what to look for as a population. We don't really understand what hard money is. Or I should say most people. You know, the hard money Bitcoin community that's really has a deep array of knowledge is a very, very, very small percentage of people. Unless you're predisposed to see patterns that that even lead you down that road or lucky enough to have somebody in your life who kind of, you know, smacks your heart on the wrist or something. And this is part of the reason it takes so long for this evolution to occur. I mean, you know, Saylor says if people knew what he knew it'd go to 10 million. Honestly, if you knew what I knew, Bitcoin would be priceless almost. Um I mean, I it's going to be at 100 million in 2071. I mean, you use a power curve or something that sort, right? So, it's like I don't know how you take the blinders off a horse and still have it walk down or run down the racetrack. And that's what we're talking about with people, right? We It breaks my heart. I hope this conversation or more conversations over the years we have help people. I I just beg them to do the reading cuz it's so the money touches everything, right? So, it makes it so complicated. And fiat is if you use the Hawkins consciousness scale, which or just showing you power versus force, you know, gold was at like a 345 according to Grok and the AIs. Fiat's like 135 and Bitcoin's like 480. Um fiat is such a step down from gold and it's so unfortunate. And the third, second, third, fourth order effects of fiat money are just devastating. And once you understand those, you owe it to yourself and any future lineage that you have to get on a hard money standard now. Then that question is, well, what's hard money? And as you know, there's very few proof-of-work and we don't need to get into proof-of-stake versus proof-of-work for this discussion, but like let's assume it's just proof-of-work. The issue is when you really study the history of Bitcoin, and I will, I'll grab this book and I will say to everyone, this is just fantastic. And it's fantastic because Bitcoin isn't some flash in the pan. It's the result of decades of incredible chances, um theories, advancements, retracements. Um it's one of the most interesting journeys out there is the history of Bitcoin. So, you can just can't do this simply. And that's why people, please do the reading. We we could give you a list of books, of course. Um and I do think that Terrence Michael's Proof of Money is one of the better places to start because it's digestible. Some of these books are hard. I mean, I've had to go through them two, three times to really understand them and a fair amount of schooling and a fair amount of financial knowledge. But the crazy thing to me is, how do you spend you know, your entire life working and then you don't spend 100 or 1,000 hours to understand how to protect that through time? And yeah, it's heartbreaking. Yeah. I love that you mentioned some of those books. And I think also the What's the Problem video is a good place to start for some people because you have to understand what the problem is first. But what was it for you that really got you to understand that Bitcoin was the solution? So, shout out to Joe Bryan. He's a wonderful, wonderful human being. Um haven't spoken with him in a bit and probably should get back in touch with him. But um that that that is the best video for most people. That came around probably a year after I had had already done my own conviction building. The Bitcoin Standard, you can't beat, but it's it's a hard read. No disrespect to Saifedean. I can't put a single moment on it other than you know, a lot of ways I was in a traumatic situation. I had terrible tragedy in my family in 2012 and then went through some personal lifestyle challenges, I will call them, that that took a quite a few years. And you know, when I came out and finally had a chance then we moved and um when I finally had a chance to catch my breath and and really take a look at my own life, that moment when you realize as an adult you're just not going to make it it is humbling. And when you realize you have to go through a whole bunch of ego deaths to survive or to become the best version of yourself that you can, I think those are the moments that, you know, it's darkest before the dawn. And you know, if somebody's happy-go-lucky and they have made it in the fiat system, they're going to be like, "Well, I've made it." And they're going to get all egotistical and that's what allows them to say they're going to be fine. And and perhaps they will, God love them. But I think for most people and and I just consider myself an average pleb, right? Um it's evaluating yourself and your life and is Are you really live the life you want to be living? Right? If you do, hallelujah. But I suspect most people have areas that they'd like to improve. And when you isolate what those areas are and and you really look at yourself, I think that's when you're most open to seeing Bitcoin. And it really is about seeing it because let's face it, this is an intangible asset. But I would send them to the mempool. Most people have never seen the mempool. And you when you see block after block and you really understand what's in a block. And you really then you look against it like it's simple to look at it versus Visa and MasterCard. That's a simple place, right? Where I could actually absorb the concepts cuz when you get into things like how reserves are printed out of thin air, you're like, "This can't be right." So, the number of times you question what you've been taught throughout your life or what you've observed or that those are the pivotal moments that for me and I could see it in a 2-month window because I was so stressed and I just kind of pushed everything out to the side and those 2 months were very emotional. It's it's hard to learn that much of what you've been taught through your life experiences are inaccurate. You and I have very similar journeys. I also came because I realized I wasn't going to have enough. So, I came for number go up. But as I went down the rabbit hole, I realized there was a lot more to Bitcoin. And thank goodness because I was beginning to lose purpose in life. And my very next question for you was, did you experience an ego death as you went down the rabbit hole? And it sounds like you experienced quite a few. For example, >> I I want to back up to what you said, if that's okay. Go ahead. You know, I couldn't agree with you more, right? You Everybody comes to this with number go up because we're programmed to view this in our native currency. If we're in America, so we view it as the dollar. But if you're in pick the country, you know, in Europe, you're going to view it from the euro dollar. So, it's euro dollar go up. That is the beginning of the journey. And everybody and it drives me crazy even on our great spaces like Bitcoin today, there's a huge percentage of the room that thinks in terms of number go up. That's natural. And I've come to accept that. But it's not until you realize the importance of hard money and not just for yourself, but for our species. And I'm I'm going to take what you asked me in a very different direction, which is to say I believe Bitcoin is the tether between AI and humanity. And it's literally the backbone that saves us through time. So, um without Bitcoin it's very hard to be optimistic about the future. But with Bitcoin, and this is where where the shift from number go up to where I sit with hard money. With Bitcoin as as the tether the future is limitless, boundless, and beautiful. But without it the world's a really dark place. It's easy to get distracted by what's happening in Iran or when you you know, I was in Philadelphia last night and you see homeless people on the street. You know, part of you just wants to reach out and give them a hug and help them and but the other part of you is fear. It's like, well, I might get attacked by that person or try to get robbed for my wallet, right? There's nothing in it by my wallet at least. But like that journey changing from number go up to becoming the best version of yourself is the most fascinating part about the Bitcoin journey. Yeah, I love that. Tell us a little bit more about why you think Bitcoin and AI go so well together. Sure. When I was at Alpha in October I went to a session. So, so Fred had it set up, so there were four different Were you there? Okay. I I would I would encourage you to go next year. It was it's it's very intimate and unlike a Vegas where it's you know a huge conference. Anyway I went to one session and everybody had gone to um this AI one. And they came out of there. I've never seen the Bitcoin community so upset. And I was like, wow, this is interesting. And I just kind of tried to stand back and listen and hear what was going on. And it became pretty evident pretty quickly that they in mass were terrified at the speed that AI was coming. And it's very uncertain what that future looks like. When I just I said at that moment, I'm like, this can't be right. Like I just I just know something in my gut very deep said, this can't be right. There has to be a different lens, right? When the I guess that having been a trader the greatest signal of all time is when the pit goes one direction. I used to have a seat on one of the futures exchanges. And when the the whole pit went one direction, you stood back for like 5, 10, 20 minutes, and then you went the other way. It was that was always the only way to make money, really. So, I'm like, yeah, this can't be right. And then I thought about it. And I was flying home on the plane ride back and and it dawned on me. I'm like, wait a minute. Bitcoin is truth through time. It's the first time we've had truth through time. Like you know, what is truth? You have your perception of this conversation. I have mine. And anybody that clicks on this will have their perception. But is that truth? It's the perception, right? But Bitcoin is truth. Like it's real truth. There was a transaction between let's say you and I did a transaction. On the ledger that is always going to be there through time. Like, whoa. That's a totally different thing. And because of that truth, we have a truth that AI can agree to, that you and I and every human can agree to. And because of that ledger and that triple entry ledger, which is so important to the advancement of humanity we have something that we can agree on. And if you have something that you can start with an agreement, you can build on top of an agreement. So, it's amazing, right? I mean, it's just I'm like I said, I I'm so honored to be sitting where we are as Bitcoin is a teenager, right? I love that. A hopeful future. I love it. Hi everyone. I'm excited [music] to share that I'll be a speaker at BTC Prague 2026, the biggest and most influential Bitcoin only event in Europe from the 11th to the 13th [music] of June. Come and join me to hear incredible speakers like Michael Saylor, Jack Mallers, Fred Pye, and [music] many more. And connect with a community of true Bitcoiners. Get your tickets now before prices go up and use my link below [music] for a discount. See you there. I have heard from many people that Bitcoin is most likely AI money because of exactly what you said, it's truth. They know leaders. It's the most likely choice, but time will tell. And you know, you mentioned number go up is important to a lot of people. And you know, Jeff Booth often says that pricing Bitcoin in US dollars is actually harmful to Bitcoin. But we are so conditioned to price it in US dollars because that's what we have. But how would you feel if Bitcoin went sideways for 5 years? Would your conviction change? Love the question. Um that would be extreme. I think it's incredibly unlikely. It's possible. If you were look at my vision of this I believe cost of production is in some ways the floor or or the field of you know, and it can go below that. Please don't misunderstand me. But to go sideways for 5 years would be unusual. I don't know that it would change my conviction, but it would change my behavior. I mean, I'd probably after 2 or 3 years be looking for a fiat job. And well, I you know, avoid that at all costs. Um no, I don't think it would. I mean, I'm I'm to the point, you know, I'm I'm not Jeff Booth. I don't have a huge name. I don't need one. But my conviction I I'm never selling my Bitcoin. I mean not all of it, but like this is so important to the future of humanity that like the only reason it goes sideways for that a long period of time is because the derivatives complex or all the nonsense or who knows what conflict we'll find ourselves in next or what government nonsense or I mean this is it for me. This is it's made my life so much better to understand hard money that I want the world to get the chance to if they experience what I've experienced by going to hard money everybody be this convicted. And it's highly unlikely that question. I I realize that because most likely they're going to be printing. They're going to have to print because of this war, I would assume. You know, somebody just asked me why Japan's is stopping to buy our treasury bonds. I mean, that's beyond my pay grade, but all of these are forms that the US are going to have to print. And you know, Larry Lepard says it's going to be the big print. And then Alden says it's going to be the slow print. But I think there's enough smart people saying that there's going to be a print. Couldn't agree with you more. Really quick numbers for everybody out there, right? We talk in terms of the debt just crossed 39 trillion dollars, which is an incomprehensible number to anybody unless you were in Zimbabwe where the numbers are actually bigger at one point, right? But I mean, 39 trillion seriously, does anybody really understand that number? Maybe Elon because he's I guess a trillionaire now. But like that's incomprehensible. But that's not the right number, right? Because you have entitlements. And if you NPV them and do all that, let's say it's 150 trillion. All right. We'll stay with the 39 just to be simple. The GDP of the country is something like 31. So, your debt to income ratio is you know, off the cliff already. But then if you do it's like what? 1 to 1.3 or something. But then if you put on over the 150, it's like wait, 1 to 5? What? That that can't be right. It's the only option they have to try to preserve the system. Lennon and Larry are fantastic voices for our community. I congratulate them on putting their thinking down on paper. And I've read both books. They're phenomenal. But it's the system will try to preserve itself. And until we get to like metrics that are different than GDP or something like that. And I think if you look at like Finland or some of the countries over there in Europe that have happiness kind of metrics. It's like take take Infor's silent depression metrics and flip them on their head. Like we're not succeeding as a society until suicide rates plummet. We're not succeeding as a society until life expectancy goes up, not because you're getting pumped full of pharmaceuticals, but because you're living a healthy lifestyle. Like obesity going down is an indication of a healthy society. I want my my child and anybody that has children out there to live in a society where it's healthy and happy going forward. And I'm sorry the vast majority of people are not happy in a fiat society. Yeah, I would agree. Tell us a little bit more about how when you started studying Bitcoin and going down the rabbit hole, how your life got better. A lot of the noise in my head went away. If you were to test me by I think they're called DSM-4 or something like that I would be very utilitarian. So, I was never a high spender. I don't need a fancy car. Well, God knows before I became a Bitcoiner, I couldn't have afforded one. You know, as of October, I easily could have. And now I'm fine. And even if we go down to 30,000, I'm going to be fine. But the changes are most noticeable within your own dialogue. And the craziest and most unexpected thing that happened was I don't like to interface with people that aren't Bitcoiners. Um at this point. I'm just it feels like people want to complain rather than take control of their situation, right? Oh, I can't believe how expensive groceries are. Once you understand it, you're like I'm going to try to bleep out the expletive myself, but this is a beeping joke. Like the whole thing's a joke. And when you go on a hard money standard your life is going to get better. I I mean, full disclosure, I'm not like some of our friends in the community that's 100% Bitcoin standard. I still struggle technologically, God knows. But I from an economic from a foundational thesis perspective, I'm certainly on a hard money standard. Oh, that's wonderful. Yes. And And you mentioned some of the people we know in spaces. I know Terrence Michael uses Strike to be on the Bitcoin standard. And they always And some of the other guys are you know, just wonderful in the space. Poncha There's Doc Side and Lauren It's It's an amazing group Bitcoin today. And And they stay very current. You know, we we both learn a lot from them. But, I've heard your voice in there, and you tend to bring another perspective. I I love this idea that Bitcoin is a forcing function for truth and accountability. And you've talked a little bit about it today. But, how else does it force truth? Sure. I told you, Paula, I can't wait till we get to talk outside of this because I feel like you're spinning this too much on me, and I actually want to know more about your journey. But, whatever. So, to your question directly the forcing function of truth and accountability Well, that came up in a side conversation that I was having with Mary and Hoddle. And you know, Mary and Hoddle is a great futurist thinker. Um and that's where I find myself spending time. And And I don't know Jeff Booth at present, but that sort of thinking is where I tend to suspect I'll end up in some capacity. What is truth? It's almost like the question what is money. Right? Because you know, when you're a child, there's black and white, you know, there's right and wrong. And the older you get, everything is gray. Right? And you you then realize that it's about perception. So, the only truth that is that exists is well, what actually happened. And again that's filtered by your own individual perception. So truth is a very complicated subject in and of itself. But, once you land on zero and one, it either happened or it didn't. And you realize that code is what Bitcoin is. It's It's math. It's the only truth that we've had since 2009. Everything else is perception. Literally, this is the only truth that I'm aware of since 2009 that is 100% true. You can't tell me that transaction didn't happen. Now, you might have inadvertently put an extra zero in there, but that's on you. That's not on And you might or might not be able to reverse it, but the only way you can And the only way you can reverse it is by the other party being like, "Yeah, we made a mistake. I'll give it back to you, but minus the transaction fees, right?" So, it's like we have truth. Like, holy cow, January 3rd, 2009 was the introduction of truth through time. It's so profound. It's so staggering to the future of humanity. Bitcoin's going to succeed. Like, this isn't some pie in the sky faith that we all have, this cult that we have. This is This is it. It's like you know, human communication was the most important discovery. The second most important was fire. I go back between the wheel and Bitcoin as the most important discoveries. It's truth truth Like, I mean, Paula, I'm going to get too excited, and I'm going to get repetitive, and I don't mean to do those things. I cannot emphasize to you in this conversation or viewers that see this the importance of truth through time. Like, holy crap. You can build anything on truth. Um So, that's the first part. Um and that was kind of the tagline that I moved to. And you know, I'm I'm talking to Mary and Hoddle or whoever, and I'm like, "Wait a minute. It's also accountability because if you have truth, then you're accountable for what you did." Well, that's equally profound. We've never had account I mean I'm sorry. And And I'm not making light of the Epstein situation is horrific. In In any way, as soon as you start to go into any sort of my heart goes out to anybody affected by that. But, it's it's it's emblematic of where we are without accountability. You know, rules for thee, but not for me just keeps coming up and up and up. And but with Bitcoin, you have accountability. I mean, can you imagine if every government in the world had to publish their balance or budget and publish it. I mean, whoa. If everybody did it, meaning every country in the world, we'd be better off. Like, this is it. This We've gone from zero to one. How do we get our non-Bitcoin community to open their eyes. You know, I I hate the way it sounds, but you know, wake up. Like, well, cuz once you see it, this is a truth and accountability through time. My gosh, I can't wait to see the future that's built on truth and accountability. Yeah, that's amazing. And that takes me back to ego death because while you were sharing, I was just thinking I had no idea that the Fed wasn't federal. And it was mostly private institutions. And then also, of course, inflation. I had no idea that inflation is theft. And that's a big one for many people. But, whether you believe it's theft or not, it's certainly stealing from you. 100%. You You brought up two things in there that let's let's explore a little bit. The first is ego death, and the second we'll go to inflation / debasement. Ego deaths are a very interesting phenomena. And anybody watching this, I encourage you to review your own life, hit pause or something, and see how many ego deaths you've gone through. And see what you've learned from those lessons cuz those are the most important learnings in life, right? And yes, I still have an ego. Um but, I oftentimes really would like to, you know, kill the ego completely. I don't I don't know how you do it. I mean, I've actually taken some courses on it, and it's it's interesting. And some people say, "Well, you can't survive without an ego." I don't I don't know about that. But, like, you know, when you go back to consciousness scores and like Jesus, Buddha, and Krishna have a consciousness score of a thousand. I'm not even sure they had egos at that point to get to those sort of scores. So, um yeah, ego deaths are fascinating. And uh to the extent you can do that within yourself, it's it's a remarkable journey. And I certainly encourage it to anybody. But, the second thing you talked about is the theft. Okay, so Joe Bryan says it best. It is industrialized theft. It is not just theft. This is on a scale that I can't even quantify. And I've tried a couple times. Just to be specific, and I ask everybody to to please take everything I say and run it against your AI. Um it's it's a little little more than just inflation. You have published inflation, which the Fed will say, "Well, we're we're trying to guide to 2%." Um it really ends up being closer to three. But, then you have this other huge piece that most people are aren't aware that it even exists, which is debasement, right? And debasement is is the big one. So since '71, we've had like 3.9% inflation and I'll call it 3.5% debasement. But, since 2000, that combined number is 9% of what I come up with. You have to you have to grow your money at 9% just to break even. Like, it's insane. So, the theft that you were referencing is so disproportionately large on a net present basis value for for any person that it actually eclipses what you pay in interest you know, one year in income taxes. So, people think it's the income tax that's killing them. It's not. It's like this combination of devaluation between inflation and debasement is so carcinogenic in any individual's life that once you figure out how to cut that out I think that's part of that lift that you get when you become a convicted Bitcoiner. Yeah. And I think most people not in Bitcoin that I've spoken to say, "Well, that's how the system is." Because that's all we've ever seen. But, because you and I now have studied Bitcoin, which is the only true free market, we realize there doesn't have to be theft. Couldn't agree more. Holding your Bitcoin in self-custody is an important step towards self-sovereignty. But, writing your seed phrase on paper is risky. Paper can burn, fade, or get lost. Micro Seed [music] helps you stamp your seed phrase onto a small steel washer. Buy the device once and use it forever. I love it. It's durable, precise, and easy to transport. Use my link below for 5% off. So, why do you think more women aren't in Bitcoin? You and I were discussing it a little bit. We are trying to get women in. This is such a hard one. Um forgive me, I'm going to assume this is not going to end up being politically correct. And uh I probably can never run for public office because of having this discussion. But so be it. Men and women are different. I'm sorry. This this whole thing has been forced down our throat that they're the same. They're not. They're biologically different. Both have great and beautiful strengths. But by definition on balance, a man is going to be stronger physically or uh faster than a woman in in a race, generally speaking. Not always the case, obviously. The lens through which women are biologically can carry a child, men cannot. I mean, it's like So, I think that some of these or I would hypothesize, and I'd love to see somebody actually really study this and get us a good answer because as we said in off camera this is the single biggest place that as Bitcoiners we can help the ecosystem is to understand women outside of it and why they don't become a part of it. So, the thesis that I put together was well, if you go back to hunter-gatherer days, you know, men had to go out and hunt a woolly mammoth or something as a tribe and come back and you know, women kept the camp and or helped prepare the meat or what have you. Men were biologically to be supposed to be risk risk takers. And I think initially there's certain certain step of risk when you step into Bitcoin and I don't think a lot of women want to take that first step from a risk perspective. So, you know what we're going to do, Paula? We're going to hit this head on and we're going to get 10 viewers of yours and they have to be women and they have to be outside of the United States, too. And we're going to sponsor them for like, you know, the minutes amount of money. Let's call it $100. And we can get them a treasure and we can get them real Bitcoin and let's do that like as a fun experiment to just start to test and understand this cuz it's a real it's it's I genuinely think it's one of the most important concepts out there. And let's try to understand it. Uh And and I would ask, please, when we're doing Bitcoin today, please get on stage. I mean, Terrence has asked me to to co-host infrequently and I'm when I when I do, I will actively try to have women up there. So, like you give me a list of women who are willing to call up and, you know, we've got some wonderful women voices in there. I mean, NYC, Peg, right? Jennifer's up sometimes. But like we just don't have enough women and and it it it's the fundamental thing I'm I'm hoping that we can figure out and and encourage women to see it because women seek safety. And the irony is Bitcoin is safe. Fiat is not safe. Yeah, I think you're really onto something there. I do think it's part of our societal upbringing that we tend to be caretakers of the family rather than, like you said in the past, because I didn't think about providing for the family. That wasn't my role growing up. I Even though I was an athlete and I will attest to women cannot compete with men. They can compete up to about 12 or 14, but after that, no. You just lose it in strength. By the way, I meant to ask you about that. What Um I think it was Marilyn said it. Chad, I think she was a really serious athlete. What what did you do? I was a tennis player. Really? Yeah. So >> Awesome. Would you play Did you play professionally? I did for a little while. Wow. >> But Yeah, I did. So, I I do know what the lifestyle's like and that was tough. Yeah, I was kind of doing it I had sponsors, but I was on my own. So, it was a little bit challenging. Looking back, I could have given it more. But um cuz, you know, it's it's an opportunity. We'll take that offline, but um congratulations on going down that route and um it's amazing and amazing co- Yeah, well, thank you. Uh yeah, one I'll tell you quickly, one of my biggest regrets is I qualified for the Olympics and I didn't go up because our NCAA's were at the same time. So, I had to make that >> go to college? University of Miami and so I was But so I had to make that choice. I I went to the University of Colorado. Okay, great graceful. Yeah. And funny, one of my fraternity brothers actually left Miami and came to our school and uh it was it was funny because our house Whatever. Um it was a total jock face house type thing and this gentleman was would not have been natively part of our fraternity. Let's And I don't mean to disrespect the greatest guy in the world. And he's ended up being the guy that I worked out with the most in college. Um but it was like it was funny to hear how different my fraternity was at my school versus Miami. And then also learn about, you know, um Miami's pretty awesome. I mean, you guys had a great football program and uh we did, too, obviously in our national championships years with that. And long and short it's I didn't think you were as old as I am, so it's nice to know a peer I was see a peer that was in college the same time. Yeah, that's the other reason this job is tough. >> [laughter] >> Tell me. But But I think, you know, I I just Why does it make this job tough? Well, starting a podcast, you know, in your 50s is tough. Um it's good to do it in your 20s. You got to get your son up here. Paula, I'm telling you, keep doing what you're doing. If you ever need a pep talk, please call me. Um or I'll give you my number offline. Like I'm you're doing God's work and the fact that you are my age, I really thought you were younger than me. The fact that you're doing this at this age is like a huge testament to you. You know, you I told you, I struggle text not technologically and the fact that you're able to do all this is like Well, you're also a professional tennis player, which is pretty remarkable in itself. This is a I would actually think there's a lot of similarities between the two. Do you Do you find that or no? As far as having discipline, yeah. You know, I'm I'm going to go back to what you were saying about women. Because, you know, I love the Spaces group and they're all some really great women in the Spaces. There's Natalie and Tiffany Vardy. There's Renee. There's Death and Bitcoin. She was on my show and she They all have a lot to say, but women tend not to come up and speak so much. For one thing, I personally don't like the conflict. So, when people start arguing, I I love to learn, but I don't like to argue. I don't like conflict, either. I mean, you know, yesterday Tomer said he didn't like the piece that I read over the weekend. I'm like, well, let's talk about it and, you know, it's not what the room wanted to talk about, which is fine. But yeah, we could be less confrontational. I mean, it's a it's a wild group. It's every demographic that exists of mankind. I think that's fair. Well, Paula, when I'm co-hosting, please come up and we won't we will drop people if they're being confrontational. >> [laughter] >> That's okay. I think I can handle it. I'm getting better at this. But speaking of that, you know, how What are your thoughts on self-custody versus the ETFs and the treasury companies? Really important topic and very complicated. In fiat mind, it it's a non sequitur, right? Because it's so much easier to be in the system. It is amongst the most important topics there is because at the end of the day, there's only 21 million actual Bitcoin or 2.1 quadrillion satoshis. And the way the ecosystem works, it's it is like its own universe. It's a it's just the most amazing thing on the planet. I'm just going to I'm going to it's going to sound like I'm rambling and I apologize for that because it's a really complicated subject. There's So, let's start simplistically. There's individuals versus all other owners. And I want to return to the Constitution and what the country is built the United States is built on. The Constitution is one of the most beautiful documents ever written. Um the Declaration of Independence as well. Last night I was at a listening to Malcolm Gladwell speak and he talked about the history of um Frederick Douglas and Susan B. Anthony and Oh my goodness. Um Katie something Katie. But she rewrote the This Katie woman rewrote the Declaration of Independence to be men and women. And like it did it the right way cuz it should be. But back to those rights in the individual, like that's what the Constitution That's what we're built on. But there were no corporations as individuals then. If you take what's happened with our law, corporations are individuals and they are far more powerful than you or I because they have so much economic weight, right? So, the self-custody issue is how do you keep it in the hands of individuals? Even myself, I half of my stack will be Bitcoin in self-custody that I never sell. But to hold it there is hard for me because of my technological, you know, I'm just not that technical. So, it's like I fortunately have friends in the ecosystem that help me and I get there. It is the most important thing because if we don't have it owned by individuals, then it's owned by companies and then the Fed the companies kind of become the Federal Reserve and dictate monetary policy. So, I'd almost argue that if you don't have to keep 51% of Bitcoin in self-custody in individuals' hands, that you're putting ecosystem at risk. So, I'm going to take that position for now, at least, that we need to maintain 51% in self-custody in individuals' hands through time. Which will get harder because the companies have the money and they're just going to keep playing all these crazy games to displace this thing and that's part of the volatility. But that's my whole long-term for the community is that globally we hold at least um let's call it 10.6 million Bitcoin in self-custody that is being transacted on the chain, but being transacted with individuals, not with companies. And that's what it means to be fully self-sovereign. Absolutely. Holding it in self-custody is one of the ways. What What do you mean one of the ways? What What other ways are there to be sovereign? So, being in self-custody is one of the ways to be fully self self-sovereign because we are holding our money outside of the system. And I agree that if it's too technically challenging, we have to build up to that because you don't want to lose it and many people have. But another way to be self-sovereign is just in your own life, right? Like being self-sovereign in your health. So, yes, we can we can use experts, but we can make the final decision ourselves and not put all of our power into the hands of experts that are running on this fiat system. Yeah. You just raised a great point that you were a professional athlete, so I'm not sure it applies to you. But did you notice as you became more and more convicted to Bitcoin how your health became more important? So, for me it didn't go that way. I started in the health and fitness industry after professional tennis. And so I was very involved in holistic health, and I knew that they were putting a lot of poisons and antibiotics and pesticides in our food. But, everything else I learned through Bitcoin. The only thing I had was health. But, Paula, I'm going to bet that that's part of the reason it was easier for you to become a female Bitcoiner because you actually saw how skewed the system was. So, you had a lens that you could get here and that bridge. So, thank you for sharing, and I think that's a um that makes a lot of sense. And Chad, for our last question, tell us how Bitcoin has changed you most since you discovered it. Oh boy, Paula, you just end with a question that I could talk for 6 hours on. Um I I I simplistically it's made me optimistic about the future of mankind. No, Terminator doesn't have to happen that way. We have Bitcoin, right? Um we don't have to go to war every other year. You can go do what you were meant to do, whatever that is. Like, become who you were meant to be. It's easier the younger you are, and I'm a little over the hill, but um it's like it gives me it it's freedom. It's given me freedom to be the best version of myself that I can, and I encourage anybody else to go be the best version of themselves. And I'm sure people are going to be inspired by this, and I really appreciate you being on. I will put your X below, which is Chadol. And so, people can reach out to you and find you in the Bitcoin spaces, and thank you again for joining me today. My pleasure, Paula. Cheers.