Muslim Rationally Gets Atheist To Switch His Position! Muhammed Ali

for you, Joshua. Hey. Uh, so I just heard about you from a friend and, uh, kind of wanting to, I guess, get a better understanding of everything. Uh, so I am a non-Muslim. I'll say I classify as agnostic. I believe that, sure, there's a big bang, more science related in belief. And I believe that there sure how can everything come to be in terms of I guess religion or not religion but in terms of everything around us if there wasn't a force but I don't believe that it was just something that we understand I guess. Am I making any sense? Well kind of okay so you're saying you believe in a higher power but I believe in a higher power. Yeah, I believe humans don't have necessarily the capability or the threshold needed to understand everything. And how did you come to that conclusion? Oh, no, no, we both agree that humans do not have the capacity to understand everything. Nobody says that they can. But to understand what or who that god is to an enough sufficient extent, are they able to do that or not? Uh what do you mean? Explain. Meaning meaning can the human being understand that there is a creator that created them that is all powerful that is all knowing that is not doesn't resemble his creation that is above everything and is not restricted the way we are and that knows everything knows the past present and future can human beings understand this concept and that he created the universe and he's put us here in reason the thing I would refute would be that it would it may not be that straight and narrow maybe he doesn't know everything maybe it There was a moment in time where everything was created, now he's absent. So whereas there's this idea where No, no, that wasn't my question. Sorry. It's it's not like uh what you think like subjectively. What I'm not asking about that. I'm ask I'm asking about You're saying what most people believe. No, no, not what most people believe. It's what what they're able to comprehend because you this was the argument you're making. We're not able to comprehend. So I'm telling you the things that I told you. Are humans able to fully comprehend and understands these concepts that I that I mentioned. So you're asking me a question? Yes. I'm not asking if they're true or not, but I'm asking if people are able to understand it. I don't believe no necessarily. No. People cannot understand what I said. So can you explain to me why you think people cannot understand that God is all powerful, all knowing, and they created the universe and which part of that the people can understand? Well, there's quite there's no evidence of it. Like, how do we know he's all knowing? How do we know he's all powerful when so many like I mean, there's an earthquake. Well, there's an earthquake that just happened in Taiwan where Joshua, wait one second, please. Please, Joshua. Okay. You're not understanding me because I asked you. I I'll I'll repeat the question again. I said I'm not asking if it's true or false. Now, you're telling me you you don't believe it's true. You don't have You're asking me the question whether or not I I believe. Do people have the ability to understand whether or not God is all powerful? God is all knowing. Exactly. So do they have enough rationality to do that and that is that is not a point that is not a question of evidence. You can understand something that there's no evidence for. So to say oh there is no evidence does not change is irrelevant because it's not related to the question. Whether there is evidence or there is no evidence that doesn't change the fact that are human beings rationally able to absorb and understand the concepts that I that I made. Of course they are. Of course they are. Okay. So it's not a question of understanding. Now is these qu concepts true or false? That's that's something we can discuss. It's a different story. Okay. Do do you agree with that? Uh I'm still kind of a bit I'm still a bit on the edge of understanding what you mean. So explain further on kind of your breakdown of the question. Question is very simple. Human beings have a mind and intellect and rationality. Is that mind and intellectationality able to understand that there is a creator creator created the universe? Creator has the attributes that I mentioned or is that beyond the human understanding that oh we cannot fathom that or understand it. It's oh it's something so complex that we can never is that the case or is it go able to understand? Okay so they're able to understand. So now when it comes to God, it's no longer a question of understanding because many atheists come and say and they use that as an argument and say, "Oh, we cannot comprehend God. We can never understand." Nobody is telling you to fully comprehend or understand God. So this you're not bringing a point against God. In that sense, God's only sent certain information about him that are in our capacity and ability to understand. Now you mentioned certain things. I think God might be this. I think God might be that. And you said there's no evidence. That's not true. There is multiple there is the clearest evidence that any human being can see which is the universe itself. The universe displays because it's created and made then it displays the attributes of what created they made it. So if the universe displays the most complex systems that human beings cannot even fathom until this day the electromagnetic waves zillions of stars and galaxies they're running in course and order and they're continuously doing so until this day. uh the precise laws of gravity, the finetuning and the existence of the universe, the systems even within planet earth, how things live in harmony. We talk about the trees, the systems, the plants, all of these things. So yeah, all of that already gives us a fact and conclusion that whatever creator made all of that was all knowing, was had knowledge that none of us can ever even access or understand. It's what it's what we refer to as all knowing. Otherwise he would not have been able to do that. So to say there is no evidence is not true because the universe itself is the evidence. Also the universe is also the evidence of the power of that entity. The universe is also an evidence that it is not bound by time and space the way we are. Meaning that it knows that past, present and future and it created time space continuum that we live in. Therefore created time and space. So it knows everything. It knows past, present, future everything. Agreeable. So okay so we are saying through the universe being the ultimate evidence you can come to a conclusion of let's say many attributes of God like the ones we mentioned. Now on top of that on top of that since now we established that there is a creator and the creator has these attributes the ones that are displayed by the universe. Now there are people who are sent Jesus Moses Noah Abraham etc. These people all come and they make a claim. the claim they make. We come from that creator that created the universe. Okay. Now, now how do you back that claim up? Sure. Yes. That's what that's what I'm coming to. So, if if we agree that there is a creator, then that claim can be true or can be false. Now, we look at the that what that person has to offer. Now, whatever that prophet and messenger is, we look okay. We ask him what is your proof and evidence that you are from God? Anyone can come and say I'm from God. Yeah. Then that prophet and messenger comes with proof and evidences. Now it depends on the prophet. It depends on the time. These different prophets had different evidences. For example, all the prophets in the past we believe uh with the exception of prophet Muhammad were sent only to their nation. So they were only sent to a specific nation or locality. Therefore they presented and provided evidences many of which are empirical meaning that people can empirical is the five senses meaning that they can observe and see. So uh you have like obviously you heard about Moses splitting the sea. You heard about Jesus the blind being born of a virgin, Abraham being thrown into the fire and not burning stuff like this in which human beings cannot do which this therefore is a demonstration that they're coming from God because this is something that humans cannot do. It's only the creator that is able to do these effects. Now with Prophet Muhammad wasam, he didn't only do these empirical miracles or evidences. He's done them to his people. So this is signs for his people to watch and see and know that he is from God. But on top of that also he brought evidences that can remain can be observed and investigated until this day because he's the last and final messenger. So it's a necessity that he comes with things that other people can observe today as well. Now for instance what are these things? For instance we know that humans do not know the future and we were just establishing that God knows the future because he created the universe. So by definition he knows past, present and future. He knows everything because everything has happened for God in a way. It's not like us we are living in the present and moving on to the future. So God can tell that prophet and messenger of what is going to come. Okay. So in Islam we believe not only in Islam but all the prophets of God they receive information about the future which is called prophecies. So they prophesize about the future and now they say that this is not from us. This is from God. God is the one who revealed to us that these things will happen. And we use that these things the way the prophets describe them happening. We use it as evidence that these prophets are messengers of God. For instance, Prophet Muhammad wasallam made a multitude of different prophecies. Many many many prophecies. Some of these prophecies were specific to people like one of the people who was a bounty hunter coming to kill him. And the prophet made a prophecy about him that he will hold the bracelets of the Persian king, the most powerful man on earth. And that man lived after the prophet Muhammad lived after the first calip caliphate lived till the second caliphate when Muslims defeated and overcome uh the Persian empire and he held the bracelets of the most powerful man on earth at the time. Many prophecies the prophetam made about today for example how the barefoot between Arabs will be competing in building the tallest buildings. We look today and we see the tallest building in the world today literally is Khalifa and the prophet said that the earth will puke its treasures and that money will become abundant within the Arabs. The prophet made the prophecy about the deserts of Arabia becoming meadows and rivers again becoming green meadows and rivers. And today we see that with our own eyes. go to NASA and there's an article about the greening of Saudi Arabia and they show you from let's say 30 years ago until today how completely is turning from yellow to to green. Yeah. So uh and the prophet say it used to be so it's come back again. It will come back again which means it used to be in the past. We have an article from nature which shows us that there is fossils of animals that only live in water like you know elephants and whales etc can only live in an abundance of water. And these fossils trace back let's say 5,000 years before the prophet. So how would he know? He doesn't have satellites. So he can see traces of 10,000 Asian lakes like the article shows. Or he does he cannot bring the fossils and you know study them and realize oh this was all meadows and rivers. So uh there are multitude of different prophecies like this. I'm talking about tens and tens and tens and I don't want to take too much of time but this is the many. Yeah. So this is one example of the evidences that prophet Muhammad bring. There's other types of evidences like the Quran itself for for example talking about the world that we live in. So if God created the universe then God knows about the universe more than we would ever know. So the Quran question a question for you just not to cut you off. I want to be respectful of your time as well. Uh but so then what is your perspective on I guess the creation of the universe? How was it created? How was it molded to what it is now? Yeah. So uh my perspective will be based on the truthfulness of Islam which is I was presenting right now. Why? Because if Islam is true then the narrative given by God because this is literally now God telling us God tells us I created the universe in this way. The Quran mentions six days which can also refer to six periods of time. So Allah is talking about creating the universe can be six days and it can be six periods of time. He's telling us that he created the universe in that period of time. And then Allah also gives descriptions of for example the heaven was one and Allah separated into seven. To reframe on what you said what do you mean by six periods of time? So not just six days what it means like in writing like 24 hours but six periods of time could be mean uh like millennials or is that what you're Yeah it can it can it can mean that. Yes. So the word day in the Arabic language basically y the word y in the Arabic language can refer to a period of time not only the 24 hours day that we we use but a period of time for example Allah in the Quran he mentions a day that is a thousand years Allah mentions in the Quran the day of judgment which is 50,000 years uh also there's narrations of the prophet this is basically where he says a day like a year a day like a month etc. So the word day can also refer to a period of time but either or it doesn't really matter. It could be 20 to we could look at it whichever different way. It doesn't contradict the the text basically. Now so specific also things like mountains, rivers and stuff like that and Allah has some descriptions where he mentions for example in surah in the Quran the first few verses in the first page he mentions like placing the mountains the rivers stuff like this. So there is descriptions in the Quran. So through reading the Quran, I know that God is telling me how he created the universe essentially. Okay. So my perspective on that is the the perspective that Allah tells me uh about it basically. Okay. So then I guess in terms of that, how do you refute some of the other findings of say like the prehistoric animals or things like that like dinosaurs, stuff as simple as that? Why do I need to refute that? So how does it how does it play into the creation of the universe with it being six days right it is known that once the universe is created then let's say 50 million years ago God could can place dinosaurs on it hypothetically by the way like I I don't accept or reject the existence of dinosaurs but I'm just pointing out that doesn't contradict what I said in any way. So uh after the creation of the universe, we don't know when that is concluded. So we don't know the age of the earth exactly. All right? It doesn't matter what science says. This this is uh speculation because it's not based on the scientific method because you have to go back in history. So it's not things which you can put under a microscope and know for sure the exact dating. That's why it changed. So we don't know exactly how old the earth is. But what my point anyway is existence of dinosaurs or non-existence does not contradict Islam in any way basically. So how many days after the creation of the universe was the creation of man? Does it describe that in the text? No. Allah doesn't tell us specifically uh when and and there are you can read the text that there was even perhaps maybe some scholars hold this position but it's not an absolute thing as well because we're not told clearly but there's some scholars that hold the position that there was even creation before the humans for Adam was sent to earth or etc. There was there was other creation even on earth. Okay. But anyways, whether there was or there wasn't, there wasn't a specific time where we're told, okay, it was this year and then we're separated how many years. And obviously that doesn't really change anything. Doesn't like influence anyone's life or change theology in any way. So, it's not useful information for God to tell us. So, we're not told about it. Now, okay. So, with the stories and the the prophecies, how do we know that those are in fact true? I know what you told me and one of one of the ways that we can tell that God uh is all powerful and all knowing is with some of the knowledge that you know in um like the tower for example. But how do we know that it's not just pure luck or just coincidence? Uh you know how do we know that? What I just told you what I just told you is how we know. Uh first we establish the existence of God. Then secondly I told you the prophet made tens of prophecies all of which are correct. And then I told you these prophecies were not only like some of which uh were at his time, some later on, some today. The prophet existed 1,400 years in the past. Okay? So we're not these are not things you can predict basically. So when you have numerous prophecies of the future about different things like I was giving you an example about building buildings about the earth and it geology and the change of water about many many different things. So the prophet made these tens of these prophecies, some about human beings. And remember, each claim the prophet makes is a reputation of the religion. So if he's making a guess, he's not going to make prophecies about specific individuals. He's not going to make specific prophecies about people. He's not going to make specific prophecies time bound. He's not going to make any of that cuz he's just guessing. And if he's wrong, then the whole religion is false. Yeah. So when the prophet makes tens of prophecies clear, specific, and numerous, and the time is like 1,400 years after, 1,000 years after, 800 years after in his time, 200 years later, it is impossible for him to do that without it being revealed from God. And most importantly, he didn't say, "I like came up with these things." He said, "The creator that created the universe is the one who informed me with this information." But like I said, this is just one evidence. There's many many many other evidences. Yeah. In Islam. So we don't only rely on that. I'm saying that is more than sufficient anyways for anyone who sincere and and with rational sense etc. It's more than enough. But there's many many many evidences for Islam. On top of that, that gives us absolute million% certainty that the prophet had to be a messenger from God. Okay. Understandable. Okay. So what my my question to you okay will be then go ahead ask a question. Yeah. If all of that but I mean it's it's still like because I'm still not knowing enough of say the Muslim religion. Uh there's still arguments that are yet to be refuted on my end. But it's still it's still a weary feeling of trusting something where so many words have been passed down from so many mouths. How do you know which is true and which is false? when it's like is it a guarantee that everything in the Bible or not Bible but the Quran is true how do we know yeah so the Quran yeah yeah yeah we know the Quran is preserved in many ways like first we know Quran is preserved is because we have an oral tradition which is memorizing the full Quran from beginning to end word for word and that tradition has been there from the time of the prophet right now we're in Ramadan if you go to the mosque tonight because it seems like in the US maybe I think or it's still day for you if you go to the mosque tonight h in the evening you will see they are reciting the Quran, one part of the Quran. So in the 30 nights they they they recite uh the 30 parts 30 parts of the Quran. Now all of it from memory. So the person who's leading the prayer word for word is reciting the Quran. Now not only if he makes a mistake in the words or letters, if he makes a mistake in the vowels or pronunciation, he will get corrected. Who's going to correct him? People behind him who are also memorizing the full Quran from beginning to end. Now this tradition today we have millions of people today who memorize the Quran word for word. This tradition has been from the time of the prophetam existence of memorizers of the Quran that took the Quran from the prophet and taught it to their students. No other religion on earth is parallel to Islam when it comes to this idea. Now that's that is already an absolute proof anyways. The Quran is the same that exists at the time of the prophet because even if you throw every book at the sea we can reproduce it in one hour. You go anywhere in Islamic world and you'll hear and you will hear the same Quran. But not only that, we also have carbon dated manuscripts from the first and second century of Islam. The same Quran that we have in in our hand. We have partial lemons from the life of the prophet himself. The same Quran that we're holding in our hand. If you go to Birmingham, they have the the Birmingham manuscript which dates to the life of the prophet and it has the same Quran that we're reading today. If you go to the or the top copy, they have the full Quran and it is the same Quran that we're reading today. The manuscripts are like 950 different Qurans, 15,000 parchments that they found in Yemen. So, but we don't need to rely on that anyways. This doesn't matter to us because we have the oral tradition that I told you. But I'm just giving you on top of that, we also have events. So, there is no doubt that the information that I've given you is what the prophetat wasallam said. Okay. Now, now you said, but there are certain points that still need to be refuted. So, you can present them. That's why we're here. What are these points? No, no, no. It's just I don't know them. It's Muslim religion. But Joshua, that makes no sense, Joshua. No, it's only from my perspective because I'm trying Well, the reason why the reason why is because I never came online. I've never even I wanted to refute my idea. more so I'm gaining insight on the Muslim religion. I'm wanting to learn. Uh it's not necessarily that I'm coming on here to argue I've never practiced or anything. It's not like something I just a spur of the moment kind of coming on here. I was actually referred from a Muslim friend who was wanting me to to look at things from a different perspective. So all respect to him. Um but it's just something that I thought of doing, giving it a shot, seeing what I can learn. Sure. But the question is did what I say is something which is an evidence based on something which is rational that makes sense. Let's let's just use that. Let's let's ask this question first. Start from this point. Is it what I presented you? Not there are some ideas I still it's wouldn't be able to fit within my idea which is essentially that. Okay, there's still you say that the prophecies are, you know, established that, you know, I could just argue that they're coincidences and it's like the only way for me to figure it out. I I could uh because but I told you why you can't. Why? I explained to you because the the fact that the prophet has made tens of prophecies tens that's 10 and it's not like tens with with an s you know I'm not saying I'm not actually I'm not saying 10 actually could go up to 40 or 50 or or even could could go up to more and then you could but then you could be here all day telling me those tens and it's not until you ring off all those tens where it's convincingly you've only told me that there's No, no, Joshua. I'm trying to make a point. I'm not necessarily I'm saying if what I'm saying is the case that there are tens of prophecies, which there are and I'm more than happy. By the way, I have videos on my channel where I go through many of them other than ones I already gave you, many of these tens. So, if someone goes through all my videos, they'll find many many. So, yeah. Do we then agree if these are many of which time bound, people bound, individual specific, time of the prophet himself, hundreds of years 100 years after him, 500, 800, 1,400 years after him. That's impossible for him to know as a coincidence. Let's first agree on that as a principle. Sure. And not make a single I'm not make a single false prophecy. You just Oh, okay. No, we can agree. Let's be realistic, you Obviously, that's not possible. So, if that is not possible, then the prophet is a messenger of God for a fact. Do we agree on this principle? I'm not telling you. Wait, what was that? Wait, what was that again? I'm telling you if this is the case, then the prophet must be a prophet of God for a fact. You sure? Okay. So, that's all I'm saying. Now, you can you you're welcome to go if you would like and look at the properties. I'm I'm even more than happy to give you resources. I'll give you an article, I'll give you a video, give you everything you want which will give you the prophecies not only that I mentioned but more prophecies in which you can listen to one by one and then see for yourself as a fact like I told you that these things happen the way the prophetam said now then it will come to you being sincere and honest with yourself because even if you came here by what you think is a coincidence you know remember the coincidence the creator has told us there is no coincidences everything happens for a reason there's a coincidence of destiny you're here today for a reason even if it was a coincidence which is not the case. If you by coincidence came across the truth, you'd have no other option except to adopt it no matter how you came across it because that doesn't change the fact it is the truth. So, but to say that there's possible maybe possible questions I don't know. Obviously, that is is cannot is not a rational thing because you can apply that to anything and you'll never accept anything because you could say there's possible questions that I do not know here. is they could always you can say that until the day. I feel well I do feel like that is rational for my for my situation because I haven't even watched any of your videos. This is my first time ever running in like ever like no no for my position of course if you were to go with that and have watched every single one of your videos and then you were to refute that were to say hey I'm not ready for this. Well you've sure done a lot of research and done a lot of studying you should know. I'm telling you that I literally have not. No, no. I'm not I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not telling you don't do research. You're welcome to watch. You don't No, I get I know. I get what you're saying, but saying always saying that and always the having that perspective. Sure, I agree with you. You'll never be satisfied with what you learn and you'll never be open to the idea or agree with one. I get what you're saying, but it's just I from my perspective, I have not even done even just a little bit. No, no. Like I said, I'm not telling you and if you understood me, you just said you understood me. I never not telling you to do not to do a little bit. Right. Like I said after the stream you're welcome to go and do your research which is I would say is a rational thing to do. This is the first time these things but my point is about to say that there is possible questions. I don't even know that's why I'm not a Muslim for example and keep saying that like I'm not saying today right now before doing any research I'm saying to keep with this idea then this is just and you would agree with me that this is just an excuse not to accept anything because you can apply that to any any ideology or anything and not accept anything ever because you could say oh there must be something I don't know out there so I cannot accept anything. So, uh, all right, Joshua is unless there's any other questions that you have for me. Uh, I think presented I made my case, you know, about God and about Islam and welcome. Yeah, I appreciate that. Thank you. You're welcome to email. Please do. I have an email called Muslim lantern@gmail.com and I would just send you some resource like I told you some prophets of the future, a video that I made about evidences for Islam and things like that. And you're welcome to watch and do your own in investigation after and I guarantee you uh you will just see exactly what I said. in front of you. By the way, here is the uh email if you want to take I see it right here. Yes. All right. Thank you. All right. All right. Joshua, pleasure talking to you. Bye. Bye. Pleasure talking to you. Bye.