20 Step Two - Decision about God / Discussion

well good afternoon good evening good morning good day welcome to our big book 12 step workshop my name is herb i'm an alcoholic please join me in prayer as we've talked about i've changed the set aside prayer to include well i thought i had the right slide up but obviously i don't so we will pray it exchanging the word brokenness for unmanageability we will use unmanageability at least i will god please set aside everything that i think i know about myself my brokenness my unmanageability my spiritual path in you for an open mind and a new experience with myself my unmanaged ability my spiritual path and especially you please join me in the serenity prayer god grant me the serenity to accept the things i cannot change courage to change the things i can and wisdom to know the difference we're on step two and following the method that we experienced that i hadn't planned for step one we dedicated at the end of our discussion on step one an entire tuesday night to a discussion of your experience especially with unmanageability but with the entire set of assignments on step one including addiction body and mind as well as the spiritual malady unmanageability that that worked out at least from my standpoint because there were a very robust discussion with you the participants about your experience and understanding and questions and it was so i'm i'm following that with step two so we're going to take a a look at step two again in a deeper look came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity and i'm just going to review the major highlights for us to prime the pump as it were so that you can bring uh to us this group this discussion about your questions and your comments your knowledge your experience your challenges whatever you feel uh would be worthwhile for you to have a discussion about and especially bringing it to the community so that it might prompt their questions and or develop their experience with regard to step two i have made a huge point i hope you're understanding it maybe having a new experience with step two it's not in the big book as clear as it is on this slide that step two is a decision it's very clear in step three the word is right in the step itself but in step two it's an assumption and a conclusion that i came to based on the way bill sets it up especially page 53 he says god is or god isn't what is your choice and i phrase it this way it's the decision it's your decision your unique decision not the big books not your 12-step fellowship not your sponsor just you you in the isolation the solitude hopefully of your set-aside attitude and your set-aside prayer to make this decision and i asked you to make that decision and write it out by this time i asked that was your assignment from last week is god necessary that's a key question and it's so relevant because in fact step two doesn't even have the word god in it it's really my decision about my concept i need power i had the experience of no power in addiction i had the experience of no power in unmanageability at the very least during the awareness of this journey in the assignments and in our community discussions bill uses the word bondage of self for unmanageability the spiritual malady this is my bullseye focus of my current consciousness is to try to peel back the curtains for the majority of people in the 12-step program who are not existentially aware of these definitions and this knowledge and this experience about unmanageability as the spiritual malady as the problem and when we connect to power we get freedom now there's a lot more work in front of us of course step three is not work again it's a decision and an experience but it's the commitment too and an introduction to the whole path of recovery steps four through nine where we get to drop the bars to realize that there's no ceiling no walls no floor that we're the ones that are holding the bars in front of our face in the delusion that we're in bondage and we're only in bondage of self that's not subtle it might sound subtle but once you finish your fifth step you will know existentially again i guess i'm into that word tonight experientially a much better word you will know experientially and in technicolor the bondage of the bars that you created for yourself is god necessary bill went to great lengths in chapter 4 to welcome the atheists and the agnostics who is god what is your question concerning power bill gives us an alternative higher power when we think about it logically and it's the only way we can reflect on it logically emotions don't really cut the deal logic is what we bring to this bill did in page 53 the question god is or god isn't and he had the questions on page 45 where and how are we going to find this power and he answers that question on page 55. deep down inside us fully present is this uh god this power conscious we use the term knowing is this god power caring we're anticipating step three in which that is the central word care of god we don't turn our will and our life over to god that would make no sense at all we'll talk more about that and deeply about that when we get to step three but we turn it over to the care is that a component of this power that you've been discerning about an uncreated creative reality that's some contrast to the slide we showed you a lot earlier about who we are which is a created reality we are finite by definition we have a beginning and we have end and we're not all powerful and we're not all knowing what is this life force that takes the acorn to the oak tree fabulous meditation that organismic life force bill calls it the spirit of the universe underlying the totality of things he's a poet and he's a mystic in those comments look at that step step two it's right from the book not a mention of god capital p on power which is a synonym what's your decision your concept that's where we are right now i wrote this in 1986 and it's still my conception of a higher loving power and what what came about was my sister told me who had about five years of sobriety she said if you want to stay sober you better figure out what your higher power is and write it down and keep it and so she was really bossy she was my older sister this is a photocopy of the original paper i've kept it in my file cabinet since then and my higher power as i understand is loving nurturing forgiving gentle wants me to be happy joyous and free he is consistent always there cares 100 of the time reliable makes plants and nature beautiful takes care of animals works in people's lives and speaks through to me through people and when you wrote that out and a poetic and beautiful uh positive affirmation of power and then you wrote out how do you behave did you have any new experience with that did you do the assignment yes i did the assignment how do i behave what you just read yes yes i wrote very simply um i believe i am consistent in my behavior today and i'm really happy with who i am today okay all right i didn't feel very wordy and also i must have taken my sobriety very seriously in 1986 because here's a photocopy i kept the calendar of my sobriety date and i wrote last day on it um nice very good i've never shared this with anybody ever yep well these are moments of uh life changes for you so they're treasures that's right wonderful thanks so much i wanted to share a bit what's going what's uh the concept of my higher power these days and it's different from last year i mean last year i was at the place where um i just got employed and i really my higher power was my employer with a capital e like working you know for him and that was what i was yearning for an employer that's inclusive that's a provider protector etc and since then i've been i mean this time around what's really resonating with me is actually more feminine qualities and i think last time last tuesday you said you know you you challenge us women to uh have you know not be gender biased in terms of calling god he and etc but and it it it's um i think it's it's a you know i meditated on it and what i'm it really really uh said like sets sets deeply in me because um in my in my in the past it's always been a father i had a very good relationship with my father so god was the masculine figure who's protecting who's providing who's uh who's loving but from a masculine perspective and this time around it's uh because i you know um and my mother i had a very she was very controlling very overbearing so i had a very hard time with that femininity so god right now is is has feminine qualities so i'm calling it the divine feminine and it's it's a bit what teresa has shared really i mean it's it's knowing it's nurturing it's healing it's cooling it's receptive it's compassionate it's inward it's loving it's accepting it's appreciative it's sensual it's wise so um that's what i'm embracing these days so i just wanted to share that thank you well uh and i'm gonna put a word on it most people probably have heard this but since the wonderful articulation of sort of an openness to having a new concept and a new experience with it the greek orthodox and the greeks themselves have a feminine god they call sophia which is a term for wisdom and you use that in your uh vocabulary there so um it's there's a precedence for it the sofia wisdom feminine spirit so just wanted to reinforce your your words and and expand other people's knowledge about that which you can't do this wrong all you can do it is differently so that you have a robust experience with it last night uh some people shared their approach was to eliminate all human attributes now there's a challenge because of course whatever it is the human qualities don't really apply all we're doing is making a super superhuman being out of god i mean it's wonderful absolutely and it's comforting and it's something that we need that's why we have pictures and icons and statues we need that kind of concreteness as long as we don't get into idolatry so none of the words that you use are adequate but they're wonderful of course it's just great poetry it's great mysticism it's great humanity and yet as bill said in the big book the words we use are inadequate you know and in the final analysis yeah no thank you i mean also because you always say that god is within us right we look everywhere and we search the whole world and at the end of the day it sits within us so these are kind of qualities that i'm yearning to be you know also that's a great insight really seriously um many people write this out as you have most everybody has written out these attributes and these qualities and then another insight is to step back and say oh my this is really a mirror reflection of who i aspire to be as a decent human being and that that expands it and explodes it in a wonderful vision statement what came up for me herb is we did the exercise that you suggested what do i believe about god now so what do i believe about god now what i tapped into is this idea that god doesn't have my back god has abandoned me during these very challenging periods of my life right and then we did the exercise and then the exercise what attributes and qualities i do i want or need there i've created this beautiful higher power that has my back that loves me that protects me so there's a disconnect between the two yes so my question okay so that's normal yeah so then my question is normal or not but it's your experience it's my experience yes so what do i do with that yes keep keep with the process well um what is the final instruction of assignment concerning step two i think it's assignment eight what's the final final bring it home instruction uh how do i behave in light of what i believe no assignment reread and highlight chapter four this time highlight mark phrases you can embrace that you resonate with okay so i did that no it's item number three item number three oh choose the attributes or qualities you need or want to be have yeah okay yeah that's what i've done yeah i've done it all right completed so so that's your choice then you see page 53 bill says god is or god isn't what is your choice you're you you just wrote out what you want and choose and that's your choice now now you as i indicated in that faith sort of discussion now you you're invited to act as if that's exactly what your god is okay step two is a decision about god now you're welcome to make that decision or not but that's you said what you want and need so just decide well that's what it is then maybe maybe it's not that clear in the instructions as i'm as i'm articulating it i'm seeing that i'm giving it a lot more flavor or or color or depth to my intention there which is for each person to see what they need and want and to firmly convict themselves that that's what they're going to choose right now and operate for the balance of this step work as if that choice was based on reality even though you have no certitude about it and no feeling about it or you might even have resistance to it and or even some negative emotion about it but it's what you need and want and you're choosing that that is the reality no matter what you think or want or feel rather does that make sense that makes sense herb i'm hearing you say it's time for me to choose if i wish to this new higher power that's the essence of step two and it's and maybe i've made it too complicated but that's the simplicity of the big book is you choose what you want and need but the key is then behave as if it's true that is it is really your choice got it and how do i assimilate this choice in my body and my soul and my heart in my spirit well well that's a great question i hope everybody heard it and is asking themselves that question and the answer is you begin to behave as if it's true when you pray and meditate that's where you're going when you're aware and conscious that's you built your tabernacle now worship in front of it yeah yeah yeah yeah that's it it's an image that i was listening i i said it last night maybe people weren't there last night so i'll say it again i was listening to bill wilson 1951 and give a talk for an hour and a half it was just fabulous and he referred to alcoholics anonymous as the tabernacle of the spirit alcohol synonymous the tabernacle of the spirit that knocked me out that's right it is beautiful that's right yeah yeah thank you for the dialogue in the early part of our discussion because i hope it brought some clarification uh to the intent of step two and that was very important discussion thank you very much thank you my god as i understand my god of myself i am nothing i am powerless like the foot prince in the sand my god is there for me never faltering it is i who fell my god is unconditional i am never alone as i work on my relationship with him my god lets me be gentle with myself as long as i don't rest on my laurels he waits for my patient improvement and as i grow spiritually i transmute my god and he transforms me in his likeness that's a powerful insight that last sentence would you repeat that please as i grow phrase anyway yeah as i grow spiritually i translate my god and he transforms me in his likeness yeah i'm going to translate for somebody that might not understand transmute it's change my god my concept god doesn't change but my concept of god changes in this in almost proportion and correlated to the way i am changed that's really what you're saying it's wonderful yeah thank you thank you very much i've been doing some prayer meditation and my concept of god today is the space in which i live everything in earth including all human things that are human and non-human and everything that is that's my concept of god it is fire it's rain it's um the universe the mountains wonderful it's poetic it's metaphysical it's mystical it's great it's great and it speaks to the unity and oneness of all reality it's just wonderful so now what do you do with that how do you translate that into your behavior going forward i believe if i continue an alcoholic synonymous i continue in the inventory and looking at who i am i can re rightly relate myself to my environment and everything in it yeah yeah and i you know i think that's the essence of the transformation that takes place the first three steps are about a relationship with power the next four steps four through nine four through seven are a relationship with ourself and the next three steps literally uh eight nine and ten are a relationship with other people you're spot on it will change us in our relationships to all aspects of reality that's what bill means by a spiritual awakening that kind of change i'm a skeptic and so i have to go back to what the thing that works for me is to go back and look at what the 12 steps did for me and what it did for my brother who brought me in and things like like i have a friend who just came into the i'm a food addict by the way who i've known for over 30 years so i had to stick around the rooms that long for her to show up so for me it's it it's it it's just that it's what i've seen happen for my brother and for me and then there's things also serendipitous things and maybe like when i've been the person to show up at a thing and i was the right person to be there for a friend and then i i don't behave as if i've got that kind of i absolutely do not i get full of fear um and so so that's why i think when i was well anyway when i was writing about it i'm trying to do something that i can actually believe in yeah because i'm such an absolutely skeptical or want to believe in right right and so that i don't know that's why yeah this last thing and then also remembering you know the series of events that happened that made me be in a particular place when so that i would go to 12-step recovery i saw things happen in my family so rather than rather than a historical description yeah which is you know that's how you get where you're at what's the answer to the step two question for you well yeah uh that i'm supported i'm guided i'm safe now uh and i provide safety for myself yeah you know there's one other thing i have this little card that a friend bought brought me and it's it's a picture of the virgin mary and it says if you know how much i love you you'd cry of joy that's the one that touches my heart yeah and then on the back it says without me god's plans cannot be realized and that sort of relates to like the way 12-step people show up or hang around till another newcomer comes yeah that we can help that speaks to the feminine energy of this of this spirit yeah yeah that's wonderful yeah yeah all right and and and again each one of us has to excuse me is invited you don't have to do anything but it's invited to bring it to a conclusion and and write it out as to this is my decision and now going forward this is may 25th going forward in this work especially i'm going to act as if that decision was absolutely scientific yeah there's really where the rubber meets the road yeah to use a hackneyed phrase but that's really literally what we're going to do next assignment is looking at oh and that reminds me assignment number nine is where we're going i'll be talking about that we're moving on to step three next week uh items number one and two and uh and three especially pay attention it's a short read from page 58 to 63 so read it all but pay particular attention to 58 to 60 because that's what i'll be unpacking next next week one word one phrase one sentence at a time because it's really dense material it's an explanation of how does it work and obviously the brings us to step three which is that decision to turn which is based on the decision of step two which is in fact about a power step three is a decision about a relationship with this power now these aren't words from the big book but you'll see how i come to that conclusion when we begin unpacking what is in the big book okay thanks very much you know when i came into aaa i was in an agnostic um and in the last year i've definitely had a huge change um and i've gotten to the point where i love to talk about god with everybody and anybody to hear what their thoughts are and it just blows my mind that so many people it's they don't really want to go there for some reason and i don't understand it when it seems like god is such a massive important thing in our lives um anyway um so i don't want to interrupt but i am going because you raised a wonderful question and and and and maybe it was rhetorical no no why do people have a resistance to or a negative attitude it's because of their exposure and experience to organize religion or somebody who is in fact connected to organized religion all right and and and and so that's where it comes from totally understandable and you'll hear it as people become very vulnerable and share their their their history yeah so go ahead okay thank you that that's actually thank you for answering that yeah um and so you know you've referenced einstein's quote that you know the mind that caused the problem is not the one that's going to solve it or the intelligence if i'm quoting the quote right yeah um i didn't realize until this last year that that einstein was apparently a philosopher mystic as well and and so anyway so like the science aspect like that's referenced in the book you know adams you know a long time ago we thought atoms were the smallest item in the world in the universe and then it was like okay electrons protons neutrons then subparticles and you know i just got me thinking that if if e equals m c squared and i think everything in the universe is god and if if everything can either be mass or energy it's just basically the same thing in just different forms and so my concept right now is just that god is everything it's this this energy that we can or can't see you know it's it's just pervasive everywhere and so you know my my qualities though are a kind loving compassionate god um and so you know um i feel like when i act as if i'm really just increasing the level of love in the world as opposed to decreasing negativity um and so anyway uh uh i don't know no no no no that's the reflection all right you're on it allow it to have its way with you stay with that yeah yeah and and again then answer the question as i probably will challenge everybody to because it's just a great reminder and that is how are you going to or at least how would you like to translate that into action going forward while we're in this workshop at least yeah and that's rhetorical yeah thanks thank you yeah no no wonderful you're stay with it let it bubble yep you know i've given this a lot of thought and i could change this whole thing tomorrow but i wrote out i wrote out some of my thoughts and i think that god does not live outside of me that god is in me and god is in all of us and god is my heart god is my mind god is me just as i am god i live in god in the same way and nothing can separate me from god the core of my bull my problems is that there can be a separation between us and this doesn't exist that god is always with me and there is no problem that god can't solve if i can get in touch with that spirit of god in me um and he will guide me to the right action and to do the right thing and truthfully if i can remind myself and get in touch with the god inside of me um it puts me in alignment like you say if we do the right thing our actions guide us to if we are in touch with god and we can remember that then our actions will be in a line with that and if we're in alignment our lives generally will go okay because we'll understand that we're living on life's terms not our terms that we aren't the center of the universe we are the center of our universe only um and that being when you get out of alignment is when you get into trouble when you use when you marry somebody who's using when your kids start using everything goes haywire it's all chaotic because there is a rhythm there is a spirit there is a to my thinking there is a um like a force like a a uh energetic force like a strength centrifugal force that's spinning so fast and we're flat up against it when we pull ourselves off of it is when we're we're off the track and and i have lived almost a whole life and in my life every time i've pulled myself off the track i am off the track and when i live within the track things seem to go in a beautiful way and this program has really taught me an awful lot about myself and it's been hard to admit so many things i've done wrong that i really thought i was doing right and now it's almost embarrassing i was so firm about it like you know i would fight to my death to get to my point well look at some of the things well many people do they they fight to the death in their delusions about being right and they didn't know that they didn't know what you're thinking about is i called the flow when you're in a light you're in the flow and we can call it a variety of names and and you started off talking about the separation i i don't believe separation is possible the problem that we have as human beings is the delusion that we're separate right the whole point of step four through seven is to remove the obstacles in us that create the delusion that we're separate from this power that makes perfect sense because it's that not being believing that you really aren't a part of it that you can separate from it is the problem that's the problem yes and that's the brilliance fourth i mean i just read step 12 and the 12 and 12. it just blew my mind everyone i have read that before yeah i might know it's off the track but this book these two books for everybody here they just keep going it just keeps going deeper and deeper and deeper they're alive these books are alive they're living organisms well that's actually the book isn't but you are okay and every time you read it there's a new consciousness you're reading with light it's incredible when that light comes in and you see it in a different way it's like i enjoy your enthusiasm and your excitement and i share it thank you so much thank i've you out many lovely descriptions of my higher power and the you know various times i've been through the steps in various fellowships um and they're none of them not true but something never clicked and the click was when you said well how would you you just connected that well how would you behave if i'm like wait a minute i actually know this because 15 20 years ago well before any notion of alcoholism sobriety whatever probably was a notion but well before i came in i came up with through a series of you know whatever readings and study um basically like a life like a mission statement i guess you could call it and the mission statement was and i wish i could remember the formula for coming up with it but it was to be a joyful conduit of truth beauty and love period and every time i came back to revisit it was like no nothing changed nothing changed every time that's all i wanted and truth especially resonated with me which is interesting because i'm a big liar um but maybe that's why you're focused on it because this is what you need there must be some way you can get at this truth thing but here's the thing so then i have all this other idea and i love also what kent brought up because it is exactly true i had idea first oh these people in this church around me actually believe this stand up sit down kneel pray stand up sit down you'll pray and i'm just going through the motions but i'm going to be polite and just do these things because whatever and this is all possibly true but there was just no connection for me yeah and then i started well there's probably is something out there and i know i've had these demonstrations that god exists god and i could list them off but we won't go into my story but the connection was oh what if i believed that all these things were and i can read it's very brief what if my power higher power was has to be and all loving generous understanding patient and wildly creative power i can turn to draw upon lean into and who will hold me in its care when i cannot and that's the key because it's all this power and it's genius but if i can't access it either because i have something blocking me or because i forget or whatever stupid reason i have as a human being with so many busy things to do um the idea that this patient loving higher power is just there kind of got my back the whole time just waiting waiting waiting and pushing you know shuffling we are we are organically delivered to step three that's what you're talking about so you're talking about taking this concept which you created it's on paper and then saying oh i can have a relationship with them correct that's where it happens in step three and i'll show it's not written the way i just articulated it but i'm going to show you bill is encouraging us to have a relationship he gives us in fact five models at the bottom of page 62 and the two paragraphs on page 63 he gives us illustrations of models of a relationship he doesn't use this terminology so we have to get underneath it and you'll see that when we unpack it in the next couple weeks guess who's looking forward to that well see but we're that that's the magic of this step process it's like tongue-in-groove to speak in a carpenter's language it's organically step one if you if you do step one you are organically catapulted into step two and if you have an experience with step two you are catapulted forward into step three he said on page 25 rocketed into a fourth dimension we got into the rocket and now the rocket's taking us where it's going to take us yeah and you know the interesting is it loses the stages when you least expect it you get those boosts right it's like oh cause they're like well nothing's happening i guess that's the end of the ride nope here we go again every time i doubt but then what if i could just act as if like you said what were the actions i take if i believed it that's it that's it and that surprise that's a spiritual awakening a week ago we had an old van in our business with over a half million miles that we were selling and i took a deposit from a man and he was going to come back last friday for the to pay the balance and to get the pink slip a day later another man came and said i want this van and i'll give you 500 more and i was so conflicted because one 500 i wanted the 500 but also the second man really had a need for it and i related to him and he i i wanted him to have it but i kept wrestling with it and i prayed about it and i talked to my sponsor about it as a spiritual advisor and i knew that if i if i backed out of the first one after i had taken a deposit to the express reason to hook that man and say you can't get out that i would be dishonoring god and like you said you either god is either in this 100 and gets the whole enchilada or not and you know the obsession to drink and use was removed from me a long time ago by i choose to say god and then two and a half years ago compulsive overeating the same thing so i knew what to do but i couldn't pull the trigger and today this man approached me again this the second the first man was supposed to pick it up today because on friday he said i can't pick it up i have to go to church i have to pray to my god and i said well i may want to sell it before they said you do what you want to do but i'm going to honor my god and today the second man said well i know that van belongs to me i know you want to sell it to me and i said no i have to honor my god i have to do what's right and when the first man when i called him and said two hour two hours later you're supposed to be here to pick it up and he said somebody stole my other van and a catalytic converter if that other guy is still interested why don't you sell it to him and the second man came tonight gave me a 500 deposit and will complete the transaction tomorrow let god be the hero of the story herb that was a spiritual experience you know and it's nice god gets a lot of credit that he's not doing a lot of blame that god's not do um underneath that story is you're a man of integrity who operates on principle and you don't need knowledge blame or credit god quite frankly you didn't always operate that way well but you you know now that there are principles that if in fact you transgress them you will be crushed so you are in alignment with your understanding of the principles of reality when you say that it reminds me when we said it's one thing to know better but you have to do better that that well it it life works a little bit better in the flow when you do well yeah for to me today this was like a spiritual experience because yeah well it's a it's a complete confirmation of your commitment to a path of principles and and yes your consciousness is what is allowing you to honor your principles but no drug ever felt this good no alcohol or last this long with such positive effects that's right exactly so and i give a lot of credit to your workshops because in regular aaa meetings you know i heard things like honest-ish and you know soberish and that's not what i get here so i'm i'm grateful thank you thanks for sharing and witnessing that this really works this stuff really works in in practical life thank you so much you're welcome thank you i have no problem defining uh my higher power but when i try and act as if i have to say there's a there's definitely a loss of self i'm really invested in not having a higher power it feels unsafe i feel like i'm leaving myself exposed um what's your concept of higher power then well kindness patience no no it isn't no no that's your fantasy oh yes yes oh uh my higher my what i my real i guess you're asking what i believe my higher power is right now well your behavior has revealed it so put some words to it sure uh well i guess fearful not trusting yeah um yeah did you write out what you want and me yeah what did you write in there a big fantasy well no no no it's a visions now i'm changing it to a vision statement okay but you notice the difference see the fantasy is is what you believe you believe when in fact you're in fear but the vision statement is what i want or need and now i'm going to make every effort to act as if that's actually really true it's a vision statement that will lead me in my behavior progressively not not not at first i will still be habituated to the fear kind of but it might lessen it might lessen as i envision this as a decision that i'm making go ahead i'm sorry okay so um what i what i have is um kind patient wise uh instill peacefulness um uh provide let me feel empowered confident provide guidance protect acceptance supportive friendly humorous replenishing and fearless see the a couple words that stood out to me and of course it's my own selector but it's um the guidance and the power this is the way step 11 is constructed isn't it the end of step 11 says praying for the knowledge of god's will and the power to do it that's for me that's what i want i want guidance and then i want to be empowered and i'm going to act as if it's true that in fact i can rely on the guidance that i get and in taking the actions that i will somehow receive the power to be effective but so what does it mean to you from a practical standpoint what what you're just saying and what i'm just saying well i i can say intellectually i think what uh what you're saying um is what i need to do but it's hard for me to do because i i am fearful all right so what would it look like if your fear were just reduced a little bit incrementally what would it look like behaviorally um oh more light-hearted all right not enough oh no that wasn't an answer to my question that's what i did that was an apology for your guilt all right so do you pray yes and when do you pray in the morning all right wonderful and what do you would in in a journalist what do you ever a serenity prayer nice in fact i do certain repair multiple times a day all right all right i can yes i can imagine that what about the set-aside prayer you know what i have not been doing set-aside prayer except for here all right all right is that something that you're willing to incorporate into your morning practice yes may i suggest you do that on your knees yes that's yeah i'm just suggesting it and the man who said who took me through the steps the first time i mean i'm a traditional catholic knees and you heard somebody else explain it yeah down and sit and ground and kind and groan oh my god but he said we get on our knees not to get god's attention we get on our knees to get our own attention it's an act of humility i did that i don't pray on my knees now haven't for 25 years um i just it's not comfortable and it's distracting to me but during this the time that i did the steps in 1988 i did pray for that year every day on my knees in the morning just a short period as an act of humility and commitment to my my decision well i will definitely try it this week you know that i guess that's really my invitation and your openness to try it is the that's wonderful yeah okay yeah thanks very much again the conversation that we're having is something that just expands the discussion in such a productive and practical way so thank you so much for bringing this into the public forum all of you who are sharing today wonderful i had the most wonderful i'm getting goof bumps the most wonderful 24 hours that i've had in a long time um it seems like every monday i get a disturbance which was yesterday and i'm thinking oh there's herb again [Laughter] and are you saying i'm your disturbance no i'm just thinking you bring out my questions the disturbance right right that's a that's a compliment it's a high compliment oh yes like i'm thinking damn here i am again yeah and i'm thinking i have never had faith i thought i had faith but i don't have faith because i don't act as if or i don't act like i have faith right so that was my disturbance and i thought damn it there we go again okay so then i got thinking about what my conception of a higher power would be and it is he or she source is my bastion of grace peace and security kindness faith he is he is all to me greatly and well countenanced in my heart he's in me for me and around me and he is my higher power i always say he i maybe will change that one day but my power he is my bodyguard my mind guard my will guard and my spiritual guard okay all right but so so rather than continue on with your long list what does it mean to you going forward it means a totally different life and experience going forward and i'm at peace with it now what i've my concept which i've not been at peace with it before yeah well there's a presence as you described it yes a summary that one word presence all pervasive presence and the the translation is trust that on a daily basis you trust that that's so yeah and interestingly enough trust was broken for me many like when i was three or four years old for most of the people on the call trust is a huge issue i can guarantee it and that's exciting for me because i didn't know i didn't trust that's correct and now i have something i can trust yes yeah well but but what does that mean then for you practically that you can trust it but how would you manifest trust that's a good question okay i don't know all right so you hold the question maybe other people will comment on it all right because i'm raising the question for you but everybody else also all right yeah because i want to make this very practical this isn't a course in theology this is a this is a course in awakening yeah yeah oh brilliant so i had a big turnaround in 24 hours it was amazing well wonderful be prepared to be amazed i usually say surprise but i'll just piggyback on your word be prepared to be amazed regularly oh yeah like i was so thrilled i thought oh my god it's a total 360 from yester last night's disturbance yeah yep yep wonderful thanks so every time i think i i've got a thought put together you ask a great question and then my mind goes whirling but for me this i've been struggling because um it truly was came to believe i've been around program for a thousands long time and i kept waiting for a bolt of lightning to hit me um because i thought that's what god was gonna do right and i i spent over 20 years wandering waiting for this bolt um and then it was something around reading readings this the spiritual thing of the back of the book and um realizing that there's a personality change and then i thought should i've had that personality to change i think i must have a power greater than myself yeah um but i kept looking and searching and searching and when i had that realization and thought what has god done for me that i couldn't do for myself and i could look back and and see i mean i hadn't had sugar some of my relationships were were changed i realized that something was doing for me what i couldn't do for myself so then maybe i had to come to believe right that that there was there was something and where was it just like you read it was inside of me um so it took me a long long time to get there and then i had this picture of what it looked like and it's you know gandalf the magnificent from lord of the rings and you know guide and loving and all that stuff but but um but i had to i just struggle and then what stops me is self-will i don't know if there's anybody else here that's got that but i slam that that door my self-will just gets in the way and i and god goes out and i want what i want um and then it takes me a while to to to come back and what's really helped me was years ago and um something happened when my father passed away that was a sign that kind of god was it and it's a it's a special number in my family and i see that special number you'd ask the question about practicality that number shows up on the clock it shows up in the stove it shows up on a on a car license and i take it to mean that god's talking to me because i need something tangible um and so whenever i see that number i say okay god what is it that you want me to do doesn't mean that my self-will doesn't get in the way but for that moment i feel that there is a power somewhere greater than me that's talking to me that's sending me a sign and and i you know the last person who talked about how do you manifest trust i try to try to figure out like what might that be like how do i need to behave in the moment because god's sending me a message and sometimes it could be when i'm thinking i should go eat a whole bunch of that i shouldn't eat according to my food plan because i'm a food addict and the damn number goes by in a car and it's like god's telling me don't do that right but i have to be open and that's what i've started saying that um the the praying um the set aside prayer now in the morning um every with my other prayers and i think that's helping but i still i don't know i i it's that self-will it's like i still want to run the show i know there's a power there's something there but i still want what i want there's 144 people on this call and 144 are self-centered no i'm not alone that's our community well i appreciate it i appreciate it and that's my goal is to be a little bit less self-centered and that's right what i'm hope but but but that's my practicality i have this number and i believe that's god speaking to me yeah well and and and i'll make it even more concrete god manifests as the present moment so every moment is the presence of the evolution of the divinity there's a thought that'll take you deep into your solitude for sure thinking about that one every but but that but that is for me a manifestation which really helps me it's great thanks thank you so much i had an exp i just remembered experience i had her and at the time i had it it's just years ago about 20 years ago the time i had it i thought i was going insane because i have siblings who are schizophrenic three siblings who are schizophrenic and i push the experience away even though it was delightful and now i'm just realizing that that was real and here's the experience i was driving in this beautiful countryside i was on my own for a month and driving through this countryside and i had the experience that god was looking at the world through my eyes and was delighted to see his creation through my eyes and i was delighted with him or it marietta whatever and it was the most amazing experience and it scared me because i thought i've never had this experience before and um but now that's what i want i want because one of the things i wrote down that i want is a conscious companionship with my creator and um and um i think that was like an awakening but the actual official term for what you had was a spiritual experience that's what bill wilson had in his room uh that mountaintop experience and and it's a legitimate mystical experience a lot of people unfortunately chase it as as a feeling or an experience that gives them a sign that they're connected to god whereas appendix 2 is very clear awareness of the presence of god is the essence of a spiritual experience so step 11 has it phrased correctly we pray and meditate to improve our conscious contact that's the whole point of it not a feeling is consciousness this awareness of the presence of god now that was a gift and embrace it lean into it remember it cherish it it's wonderful but don't chase it because when we chase that feeling we chase it away because if we it because it's a concept now and and it's a memory and it's not here now and and think of it as as a gift that's all a gift you didn't earn it you didn't earn it there's nothing that you did obviously you're driving and you have this awareness and it's a moment it's just a wonderful moment for you okay okay and uh yeah thank you thank you very much for sharing that okay thank you i need to renovate the conception of god that i have in my head i agree 100 all of us do yes um i sometimes think of him as a highway patrolman with a gun that is sitting there you bet you're you're going fast he's going to come and get you yep you bet lots of people have that from their family of origin or from their religious tradition absolutely and the whole point of this exercise is for you to identify that and then to choose what you want well yet i dare to talk to him every day i pray to him every day and um why because i believe in him oh no no i understand that you believe in some sort of a reality but why do you pray because i believe without him nothing is possible that's not an answer to my question why do you pray why don't you just acknowledge god thanks hi and and not pray why do you pray because i ask for his help okay all right so you're in a relationship of a communication of friendship wonderful great of course i always ask for his help i ask for from him to give me wisdom to continue in my life so underneath that prayer then is some intuition that help is available of course yes well but that's not the highway patrolman well you didn't let me finish mike i sometimes see him as the guy on the motorcycle with his speed gun and uh then i don't know as a beautiful uh being that he's there to live with me and the point of many different pictures i understand i understand and you're i mean everybody really can identify with that we're very ambivalent sometimes uh and and and going two different directions but but the po the exercise of step two is you've identified all of these dimensions the the final exercise and it was at the very beginning of the workshop tonight it was got it got really clear and thanks for the prompting of our our group the final exercise of step two is answering the question what do you want and then that's what you focus on as the reality i ask god to make me know what do you want in in terms of a concept of god that you missed the question what do you as a concept of god all right what do you want to change the concept of him to a forgiving and find uh being at all times not punitive all right so if in fact you actually believed that that was so that what you just said was in fact the reality how would that change your behavior i i feel if i had that reality that changing me i would be very very close to them so that's the practical translation that you trust your decision that in fact that's the reality for you right now and you're going to operate that way in gratitude every day and you're going to resist the temptation to image the highway patrol person you're going to focus on the image of this benevolent generous supportive helping power correct i i feel even when bad things happen in my uh daily whatever it is meant to be because he wants it to be maybe there's a lesson in there for me right and that's a positive attitude that there's an opportunity there in this challenge yep i feel like uh being the impatient person that i am is teaching me um to be patient by getting stuck in traffic you can write any story you want about it but it's it's really basic psychology as well as theology that if you focus on the positive eventually you become more positive in your thinking and your feeling and your behavior yeah yeah and i really want to thank you for being the person that you are thank you well i'm gonna thank you for standing and having this dialogue with me because i've been very hard on you you acknowledged it and you didn't you didn't flinch you didn't blame me you didn't get angry you opened yourself up to the conversation that's for me that's the sign of authentic willingness and spirituality so i really do appreciate that acknowledgement from you all right thank you very much here's my definition of uh what i do believe about god i believe that god is this universal omnipresent energy based on love understanding and acceptance it is the the energy which provides me the opportunity to act accordingly to all of these uh three components within this universal energy the components being love understanding acceptance and uh how do i act when i'm connected to this energy i'm open to others i help when i'm asked to do so and in brackets i put down sometimes i try to help even when i'm not asked to do so and uh every time i do that my experience tells me not to pursue this this way because it doesn't go the right way yeah [Laughter] wonderful sensitivity and uh how do i feel when i'm connected to this energy and sometimes uh especially since i'm in this workshop sometimes i i actually feel like i'm part of it not my body but my um my inside or my myself i feel calm confident helpful i'm open to life as it is um and uh if i'm i'm grateful for who i am and that's that's a huge step for me because i wasn't taught to love myself i was more taught to punish myself or be punished more maybe more be punished and so the gratefulness for who i am uh what i have uh and not necessarily material and uh including my health other comments when i'm not connected to god and i i kneel every morning to open the door i need to do that because i tend to want to i almost walked away from the program three times in my life and that was a mess the last time was a huge mess i didn't go drug i didn't go uh consume alcohol uh but uh uh life was miserable i might as well have yeah recently i had a discussion with my sponsor and it ended up being i tried all kinds of remedies [Music] throughout my life the first one was uh drinking alcohol and this when that didn't work i i consumed drugs and what that didn't work i i ran away all the time and so uh when i'm not connected to god i have a short fuse i'm not accepting i want either to run away [Music] even from myself or to ignore others yeah and uh but see even there the the sense and or feeling of not connecting is a delusion the whole purpose of this process of the steps is to bring you into conscious contact with that which you're always in constant contact that's the whole point of it so there's step two and people have talked about all around me and all in me and everywhere there's no place that there is not god we just forget to remember yes yeah and that's my running away well or or drugs and and alcohol they're all running away yeah and the only remedy uh i'll pursue the discussion with my sponsor a few days ago the only remedy in all of those the only remedy that works and keeps on working is my belief in my higher power and uh and my uh will to maintain a relationship with my higher power so every morning because i'm hardheaded every morning i have to kneel i kneel at the same place at about the same time and i open the door yeah no the two things that keep us connected consciously connected one is as you say prayer meditation and the other is what you said also is helping somebody else yes because when i'm helping somebody else i'm constantly connecting to a power that is between us yes yeah all right thank you so much doing the set-aside prayer has completely been changing everything in my life i don't even can't even express it but suddenly i had this image i just remembered my son was about 10 and i had been exposed to the teachings of byron katie and i began practicing just staying centered in focus and he came in and he was angry and he walks and he says i hate you i hate this house i hate everything and he goes into his room and he slams the door and he's banging the windows and he's doing everything and i'm in the kitchen i'm just doing what i have to do remembering this is my son this is my son i love him i was crazy over him i waited many years i was able to have this son and i just stayed focused on what i was doing preparing him to suffer and so he slammed the door just like i do and then he opened the door and he said fema can you make me some supper and that's how i see that i slam the door and he doesn't open it he doesn't force me to open him but then when i open me and then let that's what i want the road i want an ever present awareness of his presence that's all i want that's what i wanted i just want to have that awareness he's there no matter what i do i have the freedom that's what i love about it's giving me the freedom to fill that freedom i don't have to nothing i'm free so grateful and that's why i suggest the image also along that line and you're reminding me of it is of the dimmer switch and we lean gently against the dimmers gently leaning and just pushing it up gently one notch at a time so that the lights go a little brighter with each click with each notch with each day and eventually there's enough light for us to see more and then we just continue to lean gently against the dimmer switch so that it progressively goes up and the really good news is the light is infinite so there's never going to be any end to the progressive increase of the light as long as we're alive and leaning gently against that dimmer switch it's just a it's a such a comforting thought along the line that you're just talking about yeah you know i find myself taking that deep breath yeah yeah an interesting epiphany gifted to me today uh and it came up because you were just saying sometimes by giving to others we actually are the ones getting and i'm one of those people who doesn't quite lean gently into anything i tend to turn it on all the way and then shut my eyes and demand that it's off and yeah um but something has always for the past three or four years that i have been just daring the fear of god to do its worst to me and just kind of flipping it off and hoping to laugh with it afterwards which has so far for the most part happens i just forget sometimes that it happens um that there's been a little piece of me that's always a little scared am i being fake am i faking it and i think that's kind of why i use waldo because at least then i don't feel like i am like being pro-fein or something you know and today of course i'm talking to a sponsee who doesn't want to go to her in-laws and i'm like okay what if it's a do-over what if you don't have the chance go to your in-laws and this is a do-over and you're just going to do it the best you can and she said well wouldn't that be faking it i was like i don't know that there's such a thing and what i said to her and i'm playing it back in my head now and it's just ridiculously ironic i said what if by leaning into your pretend best self you're actually uncovering your real self yeah what if by putting up that fourth wall you're actually breaking it down yeah yeah and i mean i get chills because i was saying it to somebody else i wasn't hearing it in that moment but i couldn't avoid hearing my own voice you're during this conversation saying is it faking it do you even know what fake is you think you can control who you are and faking it yeah in in the fourth step i suggest something parallel to that i talk about the stretch step outside the boundaries of sanity and common sense and see what's out there and it's surprising what happens and that's what you're talking about yeah i mean i've said it before i'll say it again those 12 words if you try to keep an open mind you will find help yeah i think it really yeah so thank you for opening and expanding minds and help will find you yeah that's great uh tonight we'll end with a serenity prayer please join me god grant me the serenity to accept the things that cannot change courage to change the things i can and wisdom to know the difference your awesome group wonderfully robust conversation and there's more next week