Rising Anger in Russia /Dmitry Polyanskiy & Lt Col Daniel Davis

You were talking about the fact that some western countries are being used as a staging ground for drones or whether it's overflights or physical production and you said that can put us on a slippery slope is is the word you use. Now that is something that I've seen kind of echoed in a couple of other places uh which has at least some here in the west alarmed that there may be a change something potentially different. Um we had uh Scott Ritter on our show yesterday talking about uh Mr. Caragonov and now he is saying hey the I have advi advocated to the Russian government that we should use conventional missiles and strike some of these territories uh in in in Ukraine. Uh yeah well I'm sorry in the west that have been helping Ukraine you had uh Alexander Slavkov he he has called for an atomic bombing. Uh the Caraganovo did too. said if the missiles don't have their the conventional missiles don't have their determinative det I'm sorry if they don't have their deterrent effect then they should escalate also into the nuclear weapon and then we see situations um like this like this is in in Russian media today Russia has put on alert orbital anti-satellite systems u then we have this not only the uh the firing of the Sarmat but also that it seems like that there's been more effort in the security uh Shanghai cooperation organization to SCO countries uh that this is something that's it's helping Russia avoid sanctions etc. And uh and in fact speaking to Scott Ritter he himself is pretty alarm because he thinks that because of things that are happening in the west it is putting the Russian government in a position where it quote has to do something. The problem is now that the attacks that are taking place are doing damage to the Russia's energy infrastructure that is having a meaningful impact on Russia's economy. It's become a strategic problem for Russia, unsustainable. And so now you've changed the equation. This is the European mistake. They've changed the equation now to make it impossible for Russia not to respond. They've escalated to the point where they brought real harm to Russia. And so now political decisions become easy to make because you say if we don't do anything we are strategically defeated and Russia will not allow itself to be strategically defeated. So the Europeans have made it impossible for Russia not to respond. >> So now the question isn't if Russia will respond. I think the answer is they're going to but how? >> That was a pretty bold statement. So I'd like to hear your statement on that because you talked about a slippery slope and they are hitting deeper into Russia. Is it possible that Russia would actually strike targets in Western Europe? >> Well, you know, there are a number of opinions uh in our uh discussions. Uh by the way, there are a lot of polar views uh from specialists uh from uh those who are involved uh in the decision making. We have a very vibrant uh society unlike uh claims that are being made that everybody who is speaking out in Russian public sphere is representing Putin's view or whatever. It's it's absolutely absolutely not true. So there are people who really uh appealing and requesting that we should strike the decision-m centers. Uh one of them is Mr. Caragan of his position on the acceptability of usage of tactical nuclear weapons is not something new. which has been there for some time couple of years at least as far as I understand we have also uh deputy head of the security council Mr. medative who usually expresses very radical views. I think it's normal for a society when there are different voices from other places uh saying sometimes polar things. Uh it's on the one hand on the other hand uh well I would agree with Scott that Europeans are overplayed this thing a little bit and um they are opening uh one after another the so-called overtone windows if you know what I mean. So they try to test our resolve. They trust try to test the threshold where we would respond and this is a very dangerous game. Again it seems to us that uh we are now the only uh responsible adult player on the in the continent because everybody else uh they try to behave either in a childish or in a foolish way and absolutely they don't have any responsibility uh before the societies that they represent. It's not a computer game. It's not a simulation. It's a serious thing. We demonstrate that we have all the means to uh make our response uh very painful. Uh that would be really uh a big big blow uh to those uh who are our adversaries and who insist that they are our adversaries. We we leave the doors for diplomacy open. We they were open from the outset and uh we were repeatedly stating that we prefer diplomatic way to solve uh to solve the uh crisis uh in and around Ukraine. But nobody wanted to listen. Uh well I would say that there is a big public demand right now uh to do something resolute to show to our adversaries that Russia is ready to fight that Russia will not uh make any any uh concessions on its vital interests. uh you know the question right now is not about uh not so much about the territory I would say which some people would say um and uh territory is a matter only because these regions that are in questions are part part of Russia according to our constitution and of course uh it is logical that we want to to have their entirety by military or diplomatic means uh which is our preference. The question is how uh the uh the Ukra the remainder of Ukraine the the the Ukraine that would come out of this conflict how it will look like and what are be the what what will be the norms what will be the uh principles of functioning of this society because it's absolutely out of question that this society will remain in the same uh nationalistic neoasi anti-Russian rousophobic uh shape. This is the key issue and I think that is the question that our European colleagues leave aside when it comes to the true colors of the Zilinski regime. Uh they just pretend that nothing is happening. They don't think that they need to uh insist on Ukraine to correct uh anything. But the fact is that Ukraine is the only country in the world which officially banned another language, the Russian language. Uh despite the provisions of his constitution which guarantee uh the uh liberty of choosing Russian language for Russian speakers who represent majority of the population. Still there is not another country uh that behaves itself like this. Israel does not is not banning Arabic. Palestine is not banning Hebrew. uh United States is not banning Persian. Uh Iran is not banning English. I think this is the only the only country that decided to to behave in this way is is Ukraine. And this is this is very emblematic for this regime regime uh which started its war against Russia speaking population which started its rousophobic campaign and which be became a mere tool in the hands of the west and now we are fighting with the west and the moment when it will be a direct uh confrontation with the west is is approaching very much and that's what I'm calling the slippers. >> Well and and that that's actually what what I wanted to go down that path. I know we're running low on times, but that this is crucial here >> because there I I have talked to a number of folks in both the United States and in Europe and certainly have read other public comments uh and it is very clear when you look at the arc of this four plus years of war now is that there was a lot of concern at the beginning from the west that there could be an escalation that if we did too much militarily help to Ukraine, it could cause Russia to potentially expand beyond the borders. And you know, everything was done. First it was artillery pieces and then it later turned into tanks and other armor personnel. Then lots of uh long range missiles. Every time there was some concern that Russia would do something they never did and then it was F-16s. Early in the war, President Biden said, "You know what? If it's F-16s, we're not going to do that because that's World War II." Well, you saw years later they did use F-16s and they put them in and it didn't cause World War II. So now the view is there's literally nothing that Russia there's no red lines for Russia. as long as it stays inside of Ukraine, the West has definitely got a freedom in my observation that there's nothing that Russia will ever do. But you're talking again about a slippery slope and a confrontation between east and west. And so therefore, I I will ask, is it possible that Russia could at some point change that dynamic and say there is a cost, there is a red line and we're going to strike something in Europe. Is that possible? Well, that's exactly the question that many people are asking and I believe that many people in the west unfortunately they confuse our humanity and our desire uh to avoid u devastating moves for for the west. They confuse it with weakness and they say Russia doesn't react is because Russia is weak. No, Russia doesn't react because Russia is humane. because Russia is thinking about the future of the humanity of those European citizens who will be absolutely devastated by the consequences of this conflict. That's what that's why we are hesitating. It's a serious matter to proceed. But believe me, it if it affected really uh our vital interests, I don't think we will hesitate and everybody should absolutely remember this. I know that uh my leadership my military leadership uh has a lot of uh cards to play still militarily and uh if it doesn't use the cards that you mentioned the means that you mentioned then there are reasons for this but I'm absolutely sure that uh there will be uh no hesitation uh no lose of we will not lose time if it comes to the situation when we will have to use what what we need to use in such cases and it's according to our nuclear doctrine it is open for everybody. Everybody knows uh when when uh in what in what circumstances these weapons will be used. >> Now, I I know you're certainly not going to give any military secrets out over our channel here or commit your government to anything. But in the event that the decision makers in Moscow said, "All right, that's it. That's they've gone too far. They they crossed whatever red line is set in the in the the Kremlin, and now then we're going to do something." Would would we expect to see some sort of I don't know if it's it's ultimatum or something from from Moscow that says all right if this doesn't change we're going to do this or would it be no you're just going to wake up one day and a missile is going to land somewhere uh and there won't be any advanced warning. How might you how might that happen? Well, I I would just advise uh everybody not not uh I would advise against testing the limits of our patience uh and uh the limits of our self restraint. Uh the fact that NATO is now directly involved uh in in war against Russia uh by providing airspace to Ukrainian drones by placing the uh production of drones of other uh warfare uh in their territory. I think it it brings us very very close uh to this uh conflict which again will have very devastating uh consequences for European population and I think that European population is not aware of this. It's being brainwashed and uh uh they are hearing arguments like the ones that you cited that Russia will not will never dare use anything against Europe. I wouldn't be so sure because Europe has used everything against Russia right now. Europe is providing weapons to Ukraine. Uh they provide uh the missiles that can be used only with the approval and under the control of uh specialists from the United Kingdom uh Great Britain uh France uh whoever. So I think that they have already crossed all the red lines and it's it's a matter of time if it continues like this and then people will ask questions. So what did we do? Why did Russia respond so harshly and so resolutely? But it will be too late. >> Well uh that that is about as clear as a diplomat can can be on something like this. Uh I I guess we'll have to wait and see how it's going to work out. I certainly hope that I just >> if I may just to to to not not to stop at this negative note because I'm still a diplomat and uh I'm not a military member of military squad. So my tool is uh is are my words and my force of conviction as well as many others. So I just uh think that we still continue to do everything we can uh uh in uh in the world through diplomatic force and OC at the UN on other platforms uh to to make the to kind of uh win back the uh sanity of uh of our neighbors. I wouldn't call them partners anymore. And I don't think it's about cooperation uh that we can speak but rather about coexistence. And this will be already a very good thing to do. So I really I'm really appealing to uh everyone concerned and who has uh any influence uh to analyze this situation uh soberly and uh to understand that the fact that Russia is uh is uh displaying self uh self-restraint doesn't mean that it will continue forever and I wouldn't uh advise everybody to test the limits of of our flexibility and of our uh self uh restraint. It has limits and you you shouldn't uh doubt them. >> So it sounds to me like if the status quo remains and if the if the west at large continues to do everything it has been doing thinking that it's impervious to any kind of counteraction at some point there will be a Russian response uh across into Europe as we see. But I guess the last question I would ask is what would Russia have to see a change? What kind of change could they see that would say, "All right, well, now we don't have to look at that path." What what would what would that change look like? >> Well, I think that two I would there are two scenarios. Uh one scenario is that we uh militarily uh crush Ukraine. I think that this is very probable scenario given the factors that I explained to you. and then the west will just have to make some efforts to save what it is what can be saved out of of the KEF regime and all these things. The other scenario which seems very unlikely to me right now is that uh the west and especially European countries they just return to their senses and they would understand uh that uh they are they have gone too far and they need to stop and that there is a high time to think about uh about uh a universal uh formula of security indivisible security that would uh include Russian interests. because all the proposals from the west, all the moves from the west so far uh were uh made at the expense of Russia, not taking into consideration the concerns of Russia, but at the expense of Russia. And this is this will not work. Uh if we want a reliable long-term u sustainable formula of uh security, first and foremost, European security, this formula should include Russia. I think it's very obvious. So I wouldn't uh bet very much on the second scenario because our uh our European neighbors have already uh shown that they are absolutely detached from reality. But maybe uh some advances, some uh kind of uh developments on the front uh will sober them up and maybe we will still see uh the situation when diplomacy can play a role. Uh so far I think that uh nobody listens to to diplomats and frankly to my big regret there are no diplomats on uh European side uh that are ready to engage that are ready to do our professional job what we were trained for to get together to find solutions to propose solutions to our capital. The ones that I face are mere propagandists that are just, you know, uh sharing uh the information that uh their governments uh are uh claiming to to claiming to propagate everywhere. I I just just to finish I uh I would like to quote uh something that I said at the at yesterday's meeting of the OEC permanent council when the European uh neighbors launched another uh propaganda campaign against Russia again based on the claims that were uh abducting Ukrainian children. Uh we were we asked repeatedly about the facts uh but they do not provide facts. they just continue to uh to spread hearsay and to to make claims that are not substantiated by anything and this continues for years. So I just quoted the interview that the former press secretary of Zilinski and very close ally of him Yula Mandel uh gave to Taka Carlson a couple of days ago. Uh she said that Zilinski at some point when he uh was losing popularity and he assembled uh all those who are close to him, he said that he needed hundreds of of gables talking heads. uh that was her expression that I used and I I just said that the ones that I'm facing in OC right now the ones that we are facing unfortunately in diplomatic uh forests from European part they are simply these talking gable's heads because they are spreading absolutely unbelievable propaganda and lies about Russia. So I really hope that they will come to their senses and that they will remember that they are diplomats and diplomats should listen to each other and should try to uh inform their capitals uh in an unbiased way to take uh very uh necessary uh decisions. So far this is not the case and uh this is a source of big frustration for me. But I think I will continue still uh my my job here and I will try to uh to to wake up at least some of my colleagues uh before it is too late. >> Well, yes, that's that's the hope of all regular people that uh diplomats can do their job before it's too late so that we don't have to get to too late. Uh and we appreciate you coming on the show today and spending your time. I know we went a little bit long. I'm grateful for your time and thank you, Mr. Ambassador. >> Thank you, Daniel. >> And we will thank you guys, too. Be sure to like and subscribe if you haven't done that. 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