Why No One Bought It

The underdog, the Toyota Fortuna. >> Did Toyota accidentally kill the best value 4x4 wagon in their lineup? Was it an accident though? Because it's pretty boring like to look at. It might look boring, but if you look at the stats on paper, it's a good buy. It sits in a weird Toyota blind spot. It's tougher than a Kuga, cheaper than a Pra wagon version of the Hilux, but ignored by buyers. to find out if it really is the underdog. We're going to pit it up against the family it got kicked out of being a Toyota lineup. Yeah. And then we're going to put it against its rivals, which is the Isuzu Mux and the Ford Everest. >> How do we get here in the first place? >> Well, I had forgotten about it. It's only because of this whole bunch of comments calling it out that I've remembered it in the last two days. And to keep everyone else happy, I'm forcing us to pick three different vehicles under $60,000 in a world where the Fortuna does not exist. Because to us, it didn't exist until now. >> Yeah. >> The underdog. >> Definitely not part of the Land Cruiser family, but it's still part of a robust Hilux family. I'd almost say you could call the Fortuna the 4Runner that we don't have in Australia anymore. I haven't thought about this vehicle probably since it was released. >> Except for when I see the video pop up and it's got so many flipping views. >> Okay, here we go. >> Nor have I. >> If it didn't have that, I probably would have completely forgot that you even did the test. >> Yeah, I even did the PRAA verse Fortuna. And in that one, I recall picking the Fortuna over the Prao. This is my choice, the Fortuna. >> It was based on value. And here are my reasons. One, the price. It's very affordable compared to the PRAA. I think it was 15K cheaper brand new, but now we're talking about demo models because that's that's all you can get now cuz they stopped producing them. >> Well, they sold less than 3,000 cars last year. Everest sold 20,000 cars. Ouzi sold 12,000 cars. Thereabout. Here's why is the underdog in the Toyota family. First and foremost, the 300 series. We established there that >> 300 series Land Cruiser >> cost is rising. >> So on the median income with the average house cost, it is mathematically impossible to buy a new Land Cruiser 300 unless you saved up for 9.4 years. It's unattainable. The Fortuna is $53,000 cheaper. It used to be $55,000 cheaper than the 200 series. $30,000 cheaper than the 250 Praau. >> Significant. >> $15,000 cheaper than the PRAO 150. 10 grand cheaper than the Kuga GXL. And a Kuga is not even a four-wheel drive. >> No, >> it's an all-wheel drive. And it's even $9,000 cheaper than a Hilux SR5. This is the Fortuna GXL. No longer sent to Australia, I should say. Same motor as the 250 Praa. The Hilux. It's almost like the price of a new Fortuna never moved while the rest of the Toyotas all went up. It's almost like Toyota forgot about the vehicle themselves to be honest. >> You're so right. I reckon I screwed it up in a marketing. Everyone knows Everest. Everyone knows Mux, but no one knows about the Fortuna. This is basically the wagon version of my ute. >> Yeah. And anybody thinking Everest Mux, I seem to find is putting Prao in there. Do I get a Prao Mux? It's not never Fortuna. And now with the new Praa being so much more expensive, the 150 was kind of closer to the Everest and and the D-Max. The Praa comes in at $74,000. So, as you can see, there's a massive difference right here. >> Oh, not really. >> But now it's like $30,000 more. >> Straight into its full potential. >> So, what do you think makes the Fortuna a great vehicle then? going back to probably that test. >> Look, I did pick it over to Prao and it was more on a price point cuz I did feel like it was the underdog back then. >> Yeah. >> But I think a lot of other people think the same thing and that's why we had all these comments. >> Yeah. >> I think it's a decent car because it's like the Hilux except for it's it's a wagon. Same chassis. You can fit the same tires. You can get a paddle shift with the Crusade. >> That is my second massive like with this vehicle. This on the sand is so much fun. You don't get that on a Hilux. >> No, >> you don't get it on a PRAO. >> I think you used to maybe on a Kakadoo. >> Okay. You get the rear diff locker on all of them. >> The Fortuna also comes with a rear differential locker which is absolutely awesome in the GX, the GXL, and the Crusade version. Now, a rear diff lock in any vehicle makes it twice as capable in my opinion. Here's something I find quite amusing. Differs are generally speaking for vehicles that are doing serious off-roading. And the entire Fortuna range gets a rear diff locker from standard. But when you look at this lineup, the Praa 150 GX, the Praa 250 GX and GXL, and the 200 series plus the 300 series, both GX and GXL don't get a rear diff locker. Sure, they do get a sophisticated four-wheel drive system, but you can't beat a diff locker. >> So, how does it stack up against its competitors? Then >> we're looking at competitors like the Everest and the Mux. Yeah. >> So against those two, it's about the same price. Used to be a seven grand more. >> It's actually cheaper than Mux. And I think it's actually on par with the Everest. So a brand new one, demo model, 60 grand. GXL. They've done about >> 2,000 3,000Ks. The most expensive I could find was $73,000. That's a Crusader. And the lowest was 20 grand. 350,000 KS. >> Okay. Now, would I buy the the the $20,000 one? Probably not. 350,000K is a bit much. >> It's a lot of KS. I probably would cuz I'm not scared of high KS. >> Here's the secondhand pricing. Lowest case, highest case, and average. So, I got Crusade. I'll give you the average. $43,000. You could expect a 2018 has done 100,000 KS. a GXL the average is a 2020 model 95,000 KS 44,000. So what I did find looking at these cars for the Crusade model it was generally about the same price if it was 2 years older you get a a GXL 2 years newer or same amount of K. >> The GX again that just skips by year. So the average is a 2021 model 82,000 KS and you're looking at $45,000. Everest, Mux, Fortuna. What would you go out of those three? Not base model. We're looking at GXLish. >> Midspec. >> Midspec. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I throw the Everest straight out. I'm not a fan of their engine lineups and just the engineering of their engines and some of their common faults. >> When Alex said engineering faults, I didn't realize how extensive the list actually was. And I'm not going to go through it all here, but here's a short checklist that I would check if you're looking at getting a Ford Everest. The 3.2 2 L 5cylinder EGR cooler problems. Coolant loss, overheating, head gasket issues. The six-speed auto known to struggle under load, especially when towing. Heat and rough shifting can lead to big gearbox problems. The 2 L by turbo, the wet timing belt, basically a belt in oil. The problem is when it breaks down, the rubber can block the oil pickup. And when you have oil starvation, needless to say, expensive. The 10-speed auto reported shuttering, car shifts, and banging between gears. >> And this is what I experienced with the 10-speed auto during a test run. I know it's a Ranger >> Sport 2023, >> but it's the same running gear. >> Gearbox temperature. It got pretty hot there. It's low range and it was really heating up that gearbox. It was one bar away from the orange section, and then you got the red section, which is obviously bad. Since sitting here for a little bit, it's dropped two bars pretty quick. I'm not sure how it's going to go on a really, really hot day. May need to look at upgrading that cooler if you're going to use it for four driving. >> And finally, the next gen V6 cam shaft sprocket recall. There is a specific VIN range which you can look up. So, check it properly. But if you are buying an Everest, or dare I say it, a Ranger, this is a list I compare it against first because wrong model, wrong history, expensive. >> I've had Fords in the past, don't want to go there again. Every single Ford bar 2 I've killed the motor. The only ones that survived was the Ford Courier and the XD Falcon. I don't I don't mind the Mux. I kind of trust that engine more than the Ford. >> We own an Mux old 2014 model. So, there's a bit of badge trust there, even though they do have their issues like anything. >> As promised, the Mux gets his turn. Strong reputation, but not problem free. I would definitely be checking the front CVS as they can wear quickly, especially if it's lifted or even if it's just been used a lot off-road. The transmission heat can be a problem. Towing heavy, hot weather, working hard, keep an eye on engine temps. Transcoolers are likely an upgrade you want to look at. Turbo failures. There are reported cases, and I personally know two people who have had turbos let go while towing. Intake buildup, the all vapor and the EGR soot. This can build up over time, generally speaking, between 100,000 and 150,000. And this honestly happens to a lot of diesel engines. Some earlier models of the Mux had reported cracks around the inner guards and suspension tower areas. And again, not every single Mux is a problem. But if you're buying one, here's the list. >> The Fortuna, the name of the damn thing always escapes me. It's like Fortuna. I just keep thinking of tin tuna >> tin tuna. >> How about reliability and reputationwise then? >> Only been around for a short time since 2005 until present time now. >> Obviously not much of a reputation because everyone forgot about it. >> Well, yeah. Well, that that's the thing, right? So, I looked up what are the common problems by looking at forums and things like that. >> Yep. And because it shares a lot with the Hilux, some of this will sound very familiar. DPF issues. Some 2015 to 2020 models had well-known exhaust dramas. Smoke, warning lights, DPF problems, and of course, the intake buildup. Just like the Mux, EGR soot, all vapor turns into sludge, vehicle emphyma. But here's one that surprised me. Aircon power loss. Now, for those old school people who are watching, that used to be a thing from the past. You turn the air con on on a hot bloody day, you lose power from the car. Well, some owners reckon the Fortuna feels gutless when the air con is working hard. Hot days, stop start traffic, taking off, overtaking, that's when you notice it. But if you are buying one, I'll be checking the DPF history, the intake condition, and service records, and more importantly, how it actually drives under load. Everest Mux Fortuna. >> This throws a spanner in my works. Not that I'm thinking of buying in a hurry, but if I was buying, Mux would have been my choice. >> I'm actually surprised. Just put a spanner in Alex's works. >> Yeah, it would probably for me come down to a vehicle by vehicle basis. It would be that is excellent value, low pays for the price. I think I'm on a pretty even keel here. >> I think my lineup's going to look the same. Ford bottom Mux second place. Have not ever driven one. Fortuna first place. Toyota fanboy in you. >> Yeah, I don't think it's any surprise here. >> No. What would you choose? >> Yeah. Out of those three vehicles, which would you choose? Would you choose the Fortuna, the Everest, or the Mux? To keep things interesting, we've been forced to pick three used cars. >> We're not allowed to choose a Toyota Fortuna. We've got $60,000 to spend. >> When you said you're not allowed to choose a Toyota, I was like, "Oh, shit." When you said Fortune Toyotas, he says, >> "What's your first pick?" I'll be honest with you, I struggled with this. My first pig, I went straight for the 60K. I went a 2019 VXO. It's got 120,000 KS on the clock, but that one caught my eye, and I think that's a pretty good buy. My first pick was also very close to the 60. The 2022 Isuzu Mux with 18 12,000 km on it. That's for 58,500. >> Would you be mad if you swap cars? It's got more K's. >> It's more money. But >> K's doesn't bother you. >> I probably would cuz I'm not scared of high K's. >> No. No. It's all relative, isn't it? Pay more for something 3 years older with higher Ks. I think I think I made a better choice. >> Okay. >> Would you swap cars? >> You wouldn't swap cars anyway, would you? Cuz it's not a Toyota. >> We're getting grilled here. Okay. A couple of things. I don't know that car too well. I know this car, but I know it's proven. It's got 150 liter fuel tank straight up. What tank does that have? >> Oh yeah, like 80 tops. Might be. >> Still pretty good though. >> It does go a long way on its tank. Yeah. >> And this stock, man, it's got a wicked fuel range. >> Yeah, >> it's got a better fuel range than a 250. >> Y >> even though with all that fancy you know, electric >> start assist the new one's got. >> That's probably honestly a genuine buy for me. I >> I know the problems of the Mux. Two of the common ones are cracking inside fenders like in in the body and turbos, but both of those are supposed to have been resolved in 2021. So, I'm not sure about the bump. >> I was like, why are you picking that one? >> Yeah, this one's got all the problems cuz I love fixing things. >> What's your second choice then? >> So, $22,000. So, I'm going in price bracket down. It's an 80 series. It's a 1991. Guess how many KS? Let's say 480,000. >> I wouldn't be looking at it then. 152,000 KS. >> Oo, that's good. >> Manual, no airbags, no computer system, all that >> Yeah, >> nothing. It's a GXL as well, so it's not like the top model is definitely not the bottom model. You can get past from anywhere really. >> Huge aftermarket support >> and you could modify anything you want on it. Like you could do things to this you could not do to the PRAO. >> Yeah. And it'll be legal. Like you could even make your own freaking bullbar. >> Yeah, >> I think maybe this is airbag. >> Yeah. No airbags to worry about and all the crumple zone stuff. No crumple zones on an 80 series. They don't I don't think they can crumple. I think the brick wall's going to crumple first. >> Yeah, I think it is. >> So my second choice was along a very similar line. Um GU Patrol 2012, the Ti is 21987. Holy >> It was 21988. I wouldn't have gone there. >> Okay. >> Much higher KS than your 80 series. That's 263,000. But if it's been looked after, I had my old 3 L Patrol. It was a 2001 model. 360,000 on it before I sold that. So, you're past all of the uh grenade problems. >> Yeah. >> And then you're into just your usual common rail diesel problems. Poor fuel ruining things. What's your third shout? >> It's a Japanese import. >> Definitely Japanese vibes on the front. It's got a Tupperware kit on it. It's a 100 series. >> It's a petrol 100 series 166 and a half thousand KS. >> Oh, that's not bad. >> That would do with some Tokyo drift lights. >> Yeah, it really belongs on a DVD cover, doesn't it? >> It does. It's 19 999. >> What year is that? >> 1998. So, it's 7 years newer than your 80 series >> and it's cheaper >> and it's cheaper >> and it's an import and it's a V8 and it's a petrol and it's automatic. >> Yeah. >> And it's got ABS. >> There's an interesting theme here, right? Because on that video a lot of people were saying, "Why not GQ and GU?" And >> you can take that one. >> Yeah. Well, it's the same as your 80 series that's more than your newer one. So, if you want to look at a GQ, you can get one for $5 to $10,000, but it's going to be a weekend beta. It's going to be ugly. If you want to do touring, you're either going to have to spend a fortune doing it up or look for a nicer one that's low. And they're kind of, it seems the same with 80 series. They're entering like a collector's territory. So now you're looking at 25 grand for a cleanish GQ. Well, then you can pay 21 grand for a 15 years newer GU Patrol. >> Once it gets past a certain year, all the prices are almost matching. It's It's weird. Yeah, >> it's really weird and harder to find a decent one. Like I saw one that was $115,000 an 80 series. >> Surely not. Well, I feel like my third isn't that exciting. It's a 2022 Isuzu D-Max for 4990 with 99,000 km. >> No, you're being swindled by numbers here. You got $49990. That's basically 50 grand and it's done 100,000 KS, but it sounds so much better when you put it that way. >> They're a bit cheaper than the Mux, but I don't really think that's the most practical choice. >> So, what made you pick a ute? >> Thinking about something different to be honest. I have never owned a U. >> Which one would you take on a Canning stock route? >> I would trust the GU >> over the other two. >> Yeah. >> Really? Okay. I would take the PRA. >> Why is that? >> Well, the live axle 80 series less to go wrong. >> Yeah, I know. But it's I have to look at it first. Look, it'll be easier to fix. >> Yeah, >> there's something to go. But I know the PRA, I know the engine. >> You have some sort of confidence in standing next to late disappointment and going, "Yep, it's definitely this injector >> and this code here. I know what's wrong. I'm I'm happy with that." >> That's not what will happen. I'll either be standing next to the Lake Disappointment thinking, "Yeah, Jes got freaking good fuel range this thing. Holy it's bloody comfortable." Oh, hang on. I might not get there cuz the spin effects fire >> with the 80. I'll be like, "I'm broke. I can't get to bloody corny to fill up." >> Yeah. >> With my 10 Jerry's on a roof. >> So, the difference is whether you can afford to do it in this one or whether you even make it out. Could we even actually get a tally on how many burned out Praos there was on the canning? >> There was three. >> Ding ding ding. >> All of them 150s as well. >> This car has the exact same engine as what we have. >> All of them. >> You're not selling it. >> No, I'm not. I didn't think about that, but now now I'm actually Maybe I'll take the 100 series. >> You've got the Tupperware kit on the front. It could be like a snow plow and take the top off the corrugations. like all the bloody spin effects, too. >> Yeah, maybe they'll even pay you to do the canning stock route because you're like a grader. >> It runs on petrol. I could put a whipper snipper, multiple whippers snippers at the front when it gets too hectic, run them all become one of the Ranger crew. >> Track is track caring. >> Yeah, that just got weird. >> Just got real wild. >> So, who picked the best car and which car would you pick out of those six? You know what I feel like doing is just is building one of these up and then using it and then just give it to someone. But I don't want to pay for the car >> cuz that's too expensive. It it won't it won't be on a raffle. I'll tell you that. >> At least there's that.