Too Old for Jail? 80-Year-Old With Walker Sentenced for 5th DUI

This is your fifth DWI, ma'am. You're saying it's not. So, you have money then you can avoid being held responsible? Why do the rich people get treated differently? I thought that we were all treated fairly under the law. All right. This is cause number 25 CR441. You are Tammy Dunaway Judice. All right. Excuse me. And you were with Mr. Habiger, your attorney, and the state's uh attorney. The um Earlier you pleaded guilty to operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated, but this is a third-degree felony because you pleaded true to the second paragraph, which included allegations of four prior DWI convictions dating back to 2007. And paragraphs one and two constitute a third-degree felony, so you were facing up to 10 years in prison. The agreement is whatever sentence shall not exceed a cap of 6 years in prison, so you're looking at no less than two nor more than 6 years in prison. And uh you could be uh convicted, sentenced to up to 6 years in prison. That could be suspended and you could be placed on probation. And deferred or unadjudicated probation? Is I'm not sure. DWI third's not allowed, so it's a conviction. >> yeah. Sir? You can't do deferred, I don't think. No. No, that's disallowed for the driving while intoxicated cases. So, that's what we are looking at. A pre-sentence report has been prepared. Have the parties had an opportunity to review it and are there any corrections or changes to it? Uh I've reviewed it all. I don't have any objections, but let me give you this. Uh I wanted to add something to it. I brought this to the probation officer 2 weeks ago. This which was a week ahead of the hearing, the first hearing. This was supposed to be heard last Friday and I brought it 2 Fridays ago and somehow it didn't get get into it, but it's It's just medical proof that she has a pretty serious osteoporosis, weakness or the brittleness of the bones. She's broken her hip. She's been on a walker and will probably be the rest of her life. >> But yes, she can still drive a 4,000-lb missile. Evidently, yes, sir. Well, I sit in the I will not enable say, sir. At all. Since when? Well, we know we know in October 2023 you were born. No, I mean That's when you were caught in a DWI. >> But I have not driven since the when I had my accident, December of The what? 2025? Uh 2024? Uh or 2023. Same year. Well, that's not the real problem. The problem is this is your fifth DWI. That we know about. >> Four. No, man. You got four prior convictions. In May uh 2 May 31st, 2007 County Court at Law 3 of Jefferson County, you were convicted of to operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. After that, on August 27th, 2008, which would be a little over a year later, in County Court at Law 3, another uh operating a motor vehicle in a public place while intoxicated. Then, a little over 4 years later, uh on December 3rd, uh 2012, 12, >> [snorts] >> you picked up two cases uh you were convicted of two cases in cause number 907764 and 12-15124 out of the 252nd District Court next door. Those were two separate DWI Yeah, she was that were handled in the same proceeding, but you have This is your fifth DWI. Yeah, the fourth one, your honor, was used to revoke her probation on the third. And that's why they were both the same day. I know that's still bad. >> Yeah. I mean, No, but but here's the Here's the problem with This is the problem. She's standing there, Yeah. uh but is not appearing coherent. I know more about her criminal history than she does. This is her This is your fifth DWI, ma'am. You're saying it's not. We've got to resolve that first. You should know more about your life than I should ever. Right. But why are you saying saying this is I didn't think it was, sir. That's the God's truth. Well, I think There's some mental problems here. Or. I think there's some mental problems here. I mean, what's the state say? Or or do we have four separate prior convictions of DWIs? >> Yes, Judge, we do. Okay. You want me to show them to you? No. Hopefully. But I shouldn't have to be trying to convince you. These are your This is your life. Well, You should be more intimately familiar with your mistakes than me. I know how many times I've got arrested. Ma'am, I got I know how many times I got arrested. Arrested? That's not That's not That's not That's not a conviction. Being arrested, that's probable cause that you might have done something wrong, but you're presumed innocent unless you're found guilty. That's what's important for convictions. It's not a good deal to be arrested for whatever reason. That needs to be fixed, but you're until you're found guilty or unless you're found guilty we're not We're not talking about any other arrests. We're talking about convictions here. in this. And that's what sentencing is all based upon, criminal history of convictions and the circumstances of this crime. And it's DWIs that's your only criminal history, but you got What's that? >> [snorts] >> But this this last time they gave you a break on your third you were given a break. You were placed on probation, and then that was revoked with another DWI. Then you were sentenced to 5 years in prison, right? Correct. Okay. Do you understand the way things happen is is when you commit further or subsequent criminal behavior in the same subject matter the penalties go up. You don't get less punishment for subsequent behavior of the same type. Do you understand? All right. All right. Um I just wish you'd make the right decision when you get into a 4,000-lb missile. It's It It terrible tissue damage when it hits humans. And Kalispell, we have this every day. We have to deal with tragedies in this room on misuse of motor vehicles. Uh I'm looking at what was presented. I guess Frank, you presented this from Diagnostic Health. Yeah, yes, sir. Uh and I I gave it to It didn't get in our report, but I brought it to her 2 weeks ago, which is the week ahead of when it was supposed to be in the first time. Um But it's it's it's showing that she does have a a pretty serious osteoporosis, or uh she had She's had a broken hip and what else from the fall? >> Broken back. Broken shoulder and broken knee. And she doesn't uh walk hardly anywhere except her home. She doesn't go to the grocery store or anything like that. And she's she didn't be willing to But she um even going to probation would be difficult, and she doesn't want probation. What's your like, Your Honor? And it's I know it's kind of unusual. It's uh 2 years jail time, and and she'd pay $5,000 fine, and you could even have Safe P. She's never been on a drug treatment or anything ever. Or alcohol treatment. She's not an addict to alcohol. Well, how do I put her in the in Safe P substance abuse felony punishment when she goes to prison? That is prison. No, that's a condition of probation. That's the way we do that. It's It's Safe P is not supposed to be >> Well, she doesn't Yeah. punishment. It's a medical facility, but it uh but that's not a condition under the statute when you when you get If they want to send her >> Yeah. if the if the state of Texas wants to send her to a facility, I guess I can't stop that as part of her confinement, but I can't order it and then place her in prison. But also the problem is Frank is is it defies logic and the historical significance of the way the criminal system works. You don't get less punishment for the same subsequent misbehavior. That'd be what kind of deterrence aspect is that? It it's supposed to deter people by Right. more punishment each time you make the same wrong choice. Well, because of her health issues, your honor, she's willing if you give her uh 2 years jail and and she'd have bottom turn and pay a $5,000 fine only only because of her her health concerns or concerns for her. That that's the unusual circumstance that I I understand that that each time you committed a DWI, you'll get less punishment. Well, that's what you're that's what what you're proposing. 2 years in prison is less punishment than what we had last time. But but uh you'll pay a fine of $5,000. Well, it's not a fine at least that's some money. What's fair is fair. Just because somebody can pay a fine, well, there are a lot most people in here can't. What's the And Okay. So, you have money, then you can avoid being held responsible? I mean, if I was a poor person, I'd say I I I don't have that kind of money. Why do the rich people get treated differently? I thought that we were all treated fairly under the law. Well, And that's the way I kind of believe it should be. But I agree with you, your honor, but her health issues are other other other factors need to be factored. That's why I brought this medical Mhm. Uh and she's got, you know, she's on a walker. She she's got osteoporosis, which is pretty uh serious thing. And then she could just, you know, break break a bone by not just falling or something. >> Okay, but she can still drive a car. No, not like that. I'm I was good night I'll drive. Yeah, well she She had to surrender her license if she, you know, Okay. Well, you were We know you were driving on October 19th of '23. Yeah. And then after that, you got sick. I got ill. You weren't ill before that. No, I fell. Mhm. Well, then What was The nurse changed It's the next question. It's the next question, really. There's a problem when you commit five DWIs, man. There's a problem there. And this osteoporosis has just come up after your fifth DWI. How can you explain the misbehavior and and the wrong choices It was wrong. How how many wrong mistakes do you have to make till you do something about it? We even tried to help you with probation, and that was revoked because you you got another DWI. Right. >> [clears throat] >> Well, on probation, okay. Well, Okay. All right, what's it say? Looking over the PSI, Judge, I think what strikes me the most is that the defendant has minimized her responsibility until today. It was refreshing a little bit to hear her say take responsibility. I was wrong. Okay. She never took responsibility throughout the investigation. Also, they have found But she's doing it today. Today. That's that's great. I guess it's never too late to make an act of contrition. Also, [clears throat] the number of prior DWIs is a factor, the safety of the community is a factor, the fact that she's already served 5 years at TDC. >> What is she recommending? recommending the cap, 6 years TDC. Replicating I'm sorry, 6 years TDC. I don't feel like safety is appropriate in this case. We're going to defer to you, of course, but that is the state's recommendation. All right. You heard what the state says, and they they This group of prosecutors has been very fair, I think. She's asking for 6 years in prison. Which Um The last time she was on probation That's Let let me talk to her for a little bit, just saying. Yeah, she is not Yeah. Ms. Judice, you're a grown-up. And you can make that choice. The problem you have here is is uh the way the court feels like things ought to work, and the way I do. >> Notice how the judge keeps repeating the same principle. Punishment increases with repeated mistakes. That's deterrence in action. The system isn't just punishing the past, it's trying to prevent the future. things is that you don't get lesser punishment for the same subsequent misbehavior crimes. You know, that would not deter crime. That would be working against deterrents. If people know the more they could get probably the less punishment would be, they would they would just race to to make punishments. So, your cap is 6 years in prison and anything I have had by anybody else? No, not true. Anything from you, man? No, sir. Okay, then I'm going to find it. And um I I I wish this didn't happen. You seem like a nice person. But we're talking about 4,000 lb missiles being driven around and it's hard enough to drive them responsibly when you're sober. The way other people drive, too. Correct. You got to be defensive. And again, this is your fifth DWI. You have been a felon two uh three convictions ago. I'm going to find you have pleaded guilty in paragraph one and true to paragraph [clears throat] two in this third-degree felony of operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. You have pleaded guilty and true to paragraphs one and two voluntarily, knowingly, intelligently. Uh and you have pleaded true to the allegations in paragraph two, which state that before you committed this offense, you were convicted of four four previous DWIs, two of them being felony operating motor vehicles in public places and you were sentenced to uh you were placed on probation last time. That was revoked and you were sentenced to 5 years in prison. The agreement is a cap of 6 years in prison. I hereby find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt of this third-degree felonies. In paragraphs 1 and 2, I'm following this agreement. You are hereby sentenced to confinement in the institutional division of the Texas >> 6 years. The maximum allowed under the agreement. That's not just a sentence. That's a statement. The court is saying enough is enough. of the Texas Department of Criminal Justice to serve a term of 6 years. And I just wish we all weren't put in this position. I I just wish we could fix this mess. But you have to know you were a a a blink of an eye from fatalities when you're operating a 4-ton 4,000-lb missile, especially intoxicated. And not only you, but everybody else on the road relies on each other to act responsibly with 4,000-lb missiles zipping around the road. And for whatever reason you did not learn from these prior convictions, and here we are. >> This case leaves you thinking, was this preventable? 5 DWIs, multiple chances, probation, and still it escalated to this point. Sometimes the system gives opportunities, but eventually it draws a hard line. are put into a situation where uh I'm disappointed, but this is the just result under these circumstances. All right, anything else? No, no, your Thank you. Thank you. Good luck, man.