Atheist And Muslim Debate Western Philosophy! Muhammed Ali

study philosophy or you just studyed philosophy before you you do okay I I have like very big criticisms of question philosophy I think I think it doesn't give you answers and it entices you to be hypers skeptic question everything and not bring an answer to something philosophy is about just uh constructing a framework so you can understand reality I don't think it necessarily means to give you answers necessarily how can you understand reality when you don't have answers this it's just the way you understand it right that's but that sub is different from objective truth and reality you cannot say I understand reality that's a problem that statement itself is self reputation just reputed yourself is that statement there is no absolute truth is it absolutely true then there is absolute truth do you see do you see what I'm saying it's a self you cannot make that claim because that's a self-refutation argument you cannot say there's no absolute truth because if that statement is absolutely true then there is absolute Tru and if it is false then there is also absolute Tru essentially you cannot make that claim do you get what I'm saying I think there's different views of who people yeah there are subjective views but there are correct views and incorrect views for instance I can believe you don't exist right now that's a view but it's an incorrect view oh so it's a correct view you don't exist I don't know what I don't know how you experience the world I don't know if you're no no relevant of my exper even if I'm not here you're still there so again this is what you're missing you're looking at every you see this is why I why I critique philosophy sorry I I'm not telling you to but what you can do is to understand that regardless of my view and your view there's still a world that exists okay let's see there do you understand that like like look in history where there was no humans or still there still a universe that's a problem you just proving what I said like when I said there is a pro my problem with Western philosophy you're just demonstrating that the product of Western philosophy specific I say Western philosophy because not all philosophy is equal by the way but Western philosophy is you are a product of it today you don't have any idea of what is absolute true meaning you don't have conclusions and you're hypers skeptical about everything even you know if i s 99 or 100 people probably if not 100 99 would say that there is a world that exists right you you are a very uh small minute you what I'm saying you are a product of what they taught you in University which is a problem because you cannot critique the existence of reality when you yourself are not sure if you exist or you don't exist how can you do anything when you don't know if you're there or the universe is there or anything is there I do my work within the Frameworks that I operate with that's that's my limit I don't you don't ex I don't claim to make any metaphysical claim for anything do you exist well in the on my f like yes existence as in like I experienced my own existence yeah I feel I say yeah but metaphysically I think you know wi language within the existence we understand as a as a as a term we all understand have some know what existence is like we use language and the word existence has a very specific meaning in human language that's why we use human language so when we say do you exist by definition you do exist if I'm asking you a question and you're responding to me because you cannot respond to me if you didn't exist and you cannot be asked a question if you don't exist now this is the thing you cannot start this is why I'll tell you another problem what s of existence are you talking about existence means to be to be in every sense physical and spiritual in every sense the way you exist as a human being I'll tell you the problem in philosophy another issue is removing something which is very important called intuitive knowledge intuitive knowledge does not need to be proven outside the first person subjective experience so I don't need to prove to you my intuitive my intuitive exist but it's still true right like yeah exist existence inition we yes and it is true and it is true so there's in intuitive knowledge that can also be accurate and true and absolute now from the same sense I would say I will not uh doubt my first person subjective experience which has been consistent and true throughout my life I have no reason to doubt it I only doubt when there is a reason to that you don't start from a position of doubting but WIS philosophy is telling you to start from a position of doubting which is is causing you to be hypers skeptic and you can operate in reality anyways cuz how can I doubt when I don't know if I exist who's doubting I don't even know if I exist say like pragmatically like I I don't really doubt my own existence or anything like I know but when I'm when I'm doing the philosophy in inov myself I'm doing as academic Venture then I'm like that's why I call it a waste of time and that's why I critique it because you what you're doing is no that's fine you can no problem but I'm talking about wasting time from what sense is you are spending time critiquing something which is a given fact right is for instance Let me Give an example let's say I want to dig for gold right I know for a fact that gold is here but I will dig here someone will come to me and say okay your digging is useless a waste of time it serves no purpose right I I do it as in like not as in I'm not doing it for answer I'm finding the digging fun that's what I do it I get what you're saying I get what you're saying but this is you see the critique of the person who's telling you the action is purposeless you can find it fun that is a purpose that you're trying to attach to it but external now from fun which is the first person you subjective experience outside of fun we were talking about objective reality not what I what I find fun or not you get what I'm saying so I'm saying now outside iive that from objective reality objective reality exists things which are not based on on just our person our first person subjective experience that is objective so let's say like my purpose would be intuitive like like how yeah so I I'll explain I'll explain so I'm saying whatever is not based on my personal subjective experience that I personally determine is right and wrong or this or that is objectively the case whether I exist or not is objectively true so for example that makes sense now so this is what I mean by objectivity I'm just I didn't NE agree but say you understand what I'm saying what I mean by objective yes so what do you disagree with I just think that like like you're being pedantic about it like I don't think there is just like I don't think we can fundamentally epistemologically like we fundamentally humanly limited to our senses so like in that sense like we can't know the truth truth you know what I'm saying who what do you mean by truth truth but you said we're limited absolute the absolute reality of things qu I'm not saying that's what we're doing though but you said we're limited if we're limited then we can learn limited realities as well right so there are certain things that we can learn that are absolutely true not necessarily everything we all need to learn everything Only We believe only God or the Creator knows everything right we all believe only the Creator knows everything so let me ask a question now only answer because of philosophical background but ask the question anyways do you believe something can come from nothing absolute nothingness no energy no matter no space I tend to believe that there was probably always something in excellent I agree okay so can I have something from nothing cuz if if if we did we're not going to have I believe in Infinity infinite I believe in you believe something always existed I I don't disagree with you but my question was different that's more that's more like uh persuasive to me yeah I tend to be more okay but I'm asking a different question I'm asking can something come from nothing is that possible I think I think that's just a metaphysical like fundamental there's no agree or disag you just either agree or disagree pre for against it like no if if if nothingness exists there is isn't anything no matter no agency no space nothing how can anything arise there's no Agency for it to arise there's nothing there can understand that you are okay this is a this is why I'm saying this is a problem with philosophy everything I can present to you what's problem with that everything I can present to you can end up saying we cannot know that for a fact we don't know you cannot posit that which then makes things pointless it makes discussions pointless and it makes you essentially you're not able to come to a conclusion from a discussion you have to start from a premise right you have to agree to a different premise in order for you to move in a discussion I think I think fundamentally philosophy is just really it's about it's by expressing your fundamental beliefs which are really fundamentally just emotional things or like they're not actually like rational logical we Tred we try to connect with other people and that's the way through rational talk that's philosophy like it's communication it's a really advanced you're communicating your intrinsic innate intuitive that you believe sure that's the philosophy you're learning but that's not where philosophy originated and what it actually do you know what the word means philosophy where does the word come from theology Theology of the world okay yes you think Aristotle using and Socrates using their feelings of rationality or logic when they were positing but they believe them they were using rationality logic if you were I feel like their metaphysical intuitions came from like psychological emotional but you feel again that's about feeling yeah so so if you go back to what they posited you will see they have posited objective existence of reality they have premises and they have conclusions they didn't do what whatever you're doing right now or is it whatever is happening in University whatever they teaching and that's why I call it pointless because it is not seeking answers and it's not delivering answers yeah I agree yeah all all he's doing is like I don't we don't know nobody can know you know what I'm saying pointless in what sense in every it's just waste of time you don't have you don't have a a a a conclusion you don't have a premise and you don't have a benefit in the discussion that you would have so that's what I mean by po this in every sense of the word the only thing will be the feeling no no but I'm trying to have a conversation with you right now by positing facts and reality you trying to convince me of something I'm trying to posit logic and reasoning and then through that we can come to a conclusion yeah I think oh so do you get what I'm saying this this is what a conversation is is where you P it reasoning and rationality the other person P this reason and rationality opposite to what you say if they do have it and then you come to a conclusion and who's correct in the end right so unless you figure out that and understand that this is way the way most people would discuss I would say I'd really say if I was in your position I would sit down and really think uh the effects I'm brain I would call it brainwashing that Western the the philosophy I'm learning University is having on me on a day-to-day life or patterns of thinking that's what I would do generally how you look at life how you posit things how you come to conclusion because again if I stop 100 there's something called common sense you know what that is that's the common uh sense common rationality that is present within every human being if I stop 100 people and say can something come from nothing they will say no because they know nothing is the absence of everything and if you have the absence of everything you'll always be the absence of if I say 0 plus 0 equals what Z right if I put it in a mathematical format so if I ask you on the other hand when you for University oh we cannot be whatever you you're answering before right so what ended up happening the uh process that you did in University ended up changing your pattern of thinking as a human being and taking you away from the common sense of human beings Lally okay so I think maybe you can reflect on that I didn't really see the negative like I can still operate on a competence level but you don't exist how can you see the negative of any I never said do you exist pragmatically yes no is absolutely true a fact you exist yes you could maybe you don't exist you canot POS anything doesn't really give me any an or whatever like sorry it doesn't really pose a problem to me really oh no it poses a problem to you because if you don't exist then why are we doing it right now I just do it I'm just trying to show you that I'm honestly just trying through absurdity show you yeah I know like yes that's the only thing I'm trying to do I'll give the I'm I'm not nistic about sure but you have to be an nistic if you're an atheist but I'm not nistic I live with my family I live with my parents I live with my friends you live for your friends for your family why I love them why do you why is love I don't know that's an emotional thing okay so essentially there's no meaning behind it because you cannot Define it and you don't know what it's Source okay but I don't think that necess needs you live for your own emotions ESS that's yeah you live for your desires I think everybody does no there are people who live because they know this life is a test they trying to serve God there are people who try to do other than what you're doing not everyone lives for the same purpose it's absolutely false yeah I guess I think I think I've just cuz I've started philosophy since I was like 11 so I think maybe I'm too far g into it like yeah no but I was telling you like this is how Western philosophies generally talk that's why I I I paused it in the beginning of the discussion before even talking CU I didn't even want to get into a discussion about God because I knew how you're going to respond you get what I'm saying so I want to go more of a grounding understanding the problem I do honestly I do believe like there is like some entity out there like sure I wouldn't bepr isn't like yes if God exists yes and if if God exists then there is consequences for that right so it's very important that we he take heed to what God wants from us in this life cuz if he put us here and there is a purpose behind him creating us then if we don't do good and there is a punishment like God says in objective reality there is a punishment so then the pattern of behavior that we take in life should be based on that whether there is a God or there isn't a God so that's a very fundamental important question to look at yeah I think well what do you think about this I think that like religion is more like um I think religion is good honestly I think it's good I think it's it gives you structure gives you community but I feel like these are the big driving factors Point why religion is so successful not necessarily for this logic sure but not that's not that's the only it's not the only reason why religion is good without religion and scripture you don't have good or bad anyways you have objective I feel like it's just like like just as I of like believe in like Western philosophy like I think it's like just equally dogmatic to believe in we all just in the end just want for this like we're just believing in whatever we want to believe like that's incorrect I'll tell you why it's incorrect it's incorrect from every aspect first from the aspect of a personal experience how what benefits you as a human being in believing in a religion now if we uh compare it Western as I said Western philosophy just doubt everything doubt your existence you have no conclusions of you have no premises that is the personal thing that you there's no benefit essentially talk about following religion there are tons of benefits whether it is uh your relationship with God which gives you spiritual fortitude and strength mental strength right it also gives you answers for the suffering that you go through in life gives you community and purpose as a human being giv you guidance in life how to seek through what is the good things that you need to do what is the bad things that you need to avoid there are tons of benefits that you get from following a religion that absolutely don't you get nothing from Western philosophy I guess it's cuz like I just don't believe I have like I think just suffering and like all these things don't really need explanation like it's just a part life like you know like I don't know like this is philosophy speaking again you know if I were if I were to take you right now and put you in my basement yeah and start taking your nails off one by one and wait for them to grow and keep repeating that process you will care about suffering why because it's happening to you right now you're saying that is because you you live an easy life there are tons of people who are in active suffering and they would care about suffering and explanations for it and they will need mental fortitude for it why do people commit suicide because they come to many people come to that conclusion of of absolute suffering in which no purpose nihilism and then and then they you came to that point before so you Pro proving the point I just realized like well it's just not that de like as keep if I just maintain my relationship with my family and my friends like but that's I I don't I don't want to tell you those purposes because I don't want you to to try again you know I want you to I want you to stay alive you know so I'm not going to I'm not going to found call in my family and like Community like but in the same way like religion is just it's Community not only that a big thing I told you on a personal level it gives you answers to these questions even without cuz there's many people who don't have families then why are they going to live for maybe if I didn't have a family then then maybe I'm be more inclined to yeah so that's what I'm saying so it's not just about a family ReliOn it's about your connection with God your purpose in this life and where are you going in the afterlife I guess maybe I'm enough well you're saying that right now but you will die one day and if there is a God your fulfillment is irrelevant because there will be a punishment for not following the command so I'll let you read first and I do hope you like investigate a bit what you're saying about the effects of f philosophy you know I hope it was a good conversation pleas talking to you no problem nice talking to you see you