Bitcoin and Health: What Nobody Is Telling You

And so, I think sovereignty allows you to have the [music] freedom to take control over your life. And from a health perspective, that's really important [music] because no one knows you as much as you do, right? Often in health, we export that responsibility outside >> [music] >> because it's those people that know more. I would argue that potentially a more stable money could then provide people with a sounder foundation to make decisions that in [music] turn impact their health. You know, what the future could look like on a Bitcoin standard, and I think that's a wonderful utopia that [music] we could strive to, you know, whether that's really going to be the case, I don't know, but it does show that wow, there's something inspirational here. >> [music] >> Today, I'm excited to welcome Emma Aptitude to the podcast. Emma is a Bitcoin mentor and public health professional whose research explores Bitcoin as a powerful catalyst for individual sovereignty and systemic transformation in health and social systems. Welcome to the Bitcoin Edge, Emma. Thank you so much, Carla. It's a pleasure to be here. It's good to see you. So, before we get into all of that, tell us a little bit about yourself and what led you to Bitcoin. Yes, so I have a background in public health, specifically um in academic public health in higher education administration. And um as an academic, you are trained to ask questions. I mean, that's what drives your research and your education. And over the past decade, I've been asking lots of questions around how can we make communities healthier? How can we empower individuals? And those studies often come to a place where they're like, we need to research more or we need to understand the social economic gaps between different groups. And when we look at the social economic factors that we use to study um differences in health, it's often these secondary proxy measures such as income, such as wage. And barely do we ask, what about the health of our money? How does that play into disparities in health? And like many people that are in the Bitcoin space, uh the recent pandemic really opened my eyes to the social economic differences um and also at a personal level as well, too. I started asking deeper questions about what is money and, you know, what are my future plans to, you know, secure my financial future. And applying those questions as well at a group level, I started understanding and obviously you see the number go up of Bitcoin as well, too, the promise of that. So, that makes it an enticing thing to to look at. But, you know, often on that journey, you might start looking at crypto, the shiny things, and then you get into um hmm, there's something fundamentally flawed with these other crypto. What is this Bitcoin thing? And then you realize, wow, it's solving for better money. And um once I discovered that, I was just like, oh my goodness, like this is where I want to lean into more. I want to explore how can Bitcoin help to improve health care and also social determinants of health as well, too. We talk a lot about that in health care because almost up to 80% of the addressable modifiable factors in health relate to your housing, relate to your environment. And so, if those things are not in good order, then you can start seeing disparities. And so, it was really just asking questions around money that led me to Bitcoin. That makes a lot of sense. To me, not not everybody comes to that conclusion right away. But, how do you see Bitcoin transforming health and social systems? Yeah, it's a great question. And I wrote an article called the invisible health tax, and I argue that um our current fiat system, so money by decree, it relies on monetary policy that um is not so transparent to people from a long-term planning perspective. We don't know what um you know, the the interest rates on money, what it's going to be 5, 10 years down the road. And so, this introduces some sort of it it it introduces uncertainty. And this uncertainty then can be embodied, and it can create stress. There are no studies out there on this, right? In a perfect world, you'd have gold standard trials where you'd investigate people that say on a Bitcoin standard with a algorithmic stable supply of money versus a fiat money. But, we don't have that. But, I do think we are to some extent seeing um this mitochondrial tax where people are compensating for the loss of purchasing power of their money. So, I would argue that potentially a more stable money could then provide people with a sounder foundation to make decisions that in turn impact their health. So, that's like on the individual level. On the social level, if you had a money that grew it's, let's say, purchasing power over time. So, for example, um I'm based in Canada, the Canadian dollar has lost what, 94% of its purchasing power from 1914 to 2005. So, it probably has lost more purchasing power now. Um so, imagine you actually had a money that did the opposite. And you had communities that could save in that money and decide, you know, to allocate portions to maybe top up, let's say, their nurses, for example. So, in Canada, for example, this is in the US as well in some regions, too, that there's severe understaffing. And um nurses, physicians, they're they're experiencing a lot of this um stress of having to take double shifts and and so forth. And on top of that, they might be burdened from school loans that they might have had. You know, some doctors come out with hundreds of thousands of debt. And then they're working more and more and more. So, imagine if you could provide some sort of, you know, fund, let's say, for health care workers who could then work in health care systems that maybe had a a Bitcoin treasury that they could also use to support um their operations. And then also, on top of that, revamp the health care system to focus on prevention. So, really that's what public health is meant to be. And um a lot of people have many bad ideas of what public health is, and I think we we we don't need to go down that rabbit hole cuz we've all kind of experienced had our own experiences during COVID. Um but, the gist of public health is to prevent disease. And so, if we start from that premise, then there'd be a lot of things in our social economic environment that we would change and that we would prioritize. And so, I'd argue that Bitcoin gives us this lens to see what we could change and how could we support preventative services and to support our health care workers to the best of our abilities with the money that we have. Yeah, that's that's very interesting. And while you were speaking, I was thinking, yes, when I first found Bitcoin, it gave me a lot of hope. But, at the same time, when you were talking about different people in different socioeconomic levels, they still have to want Bitcoin and want to save or want to use a better money. So, how do you bridge that gap? Yeah, I would say um so, like as as Bitcoin were the medium of exchange rather than just um saving, I would say that given that the economy is based on people providing value, let's say, and money is used to um exchange with that value, I think people can allocate their money however they wish. They can use it as a medium of exchange, they can use it as a savings mechanism. And I think just the if we had a free market, the free market would just allow um you know, the savers to save, people to exchange. And I I don't think we would have an issue with people maybe hoarding it, let's say, just as a savings cuz people they have needs and so I just think also with Bitcoin being a medium exchange as well, that is more divisible than fiat as well, too, you can also have micro payments as well that could help those in social economic status rungs that um you know, maybe harder for them to even get to a savings level because they're not able to maybe, you know, do this thing that would only cost 50 cents, but if they could actually have a money where they could get that divisible amount back, then potentially that could help, you know, that person um get into the savings realm as well, too. Does that get to to your point? Yes, it does. And I'm also trying to get to, you know, it sounds to me fix the money, fix the world. But as you and I both know, that's going to be a long road to governments wanting to use Bitcoin because right now most of our governments profit off the current system. So, Bitcoin is an opt-in option. So, I was just wondering, you know, how do we get people to see that Bitcoin is more of an opt-in? And I know you're an educator, how do you work on that? Yeah, so what's really interesting is I'm currently in a fellowship in the Alex de Tocqueville fellowship at George Mason University in Bitcoin Park, and they brought together many people from the Bitcoin ecosystem. So, you know, people working on private AI to human rights to and we're all reading great authors like Hayek, for example. And your question makes me think about Hayek's like denationalization of money and also his writings on knowledge and how society advances due to improved knowledge or observing certain individuals and communities doing things better based on a particular knowledge that they might have. Or, you know, that knowledge turns into a skill. And you essentially could observe, let's say, that particular community and be like, "Oh my gosh, they're they're able to to build this community center, they're able to do, you know, all of these How are they doing it? What are they saving in?" And I think we'll start seeing, you know, some of these citadels, if you will, and people asking these questions and the response is potentially, well, Bitcoin is the foundation. And so for the other people that, you know, didn't have that knowledge, they might uptake that and say, "Okay, well, maybe I should start saving. It might take some time, but maybe I should start saving in this thing." And so, like to your point, there is going to be, you know, like governments and other players in the mix that might, you know, let's say, slow adoption, but I think it's it's it's the knowledge that we can accrue from people that are being successful in a way that we appreciate that will move maybe these people that are skeptical about Bitcoin. Again, and we don't have a crystal ball to say Bitcoin's going to keep doing like look at the current cycle that we're in right now, you know, many people wouldn't have thought we would be where we are, you know, number wise. And so, who knows? I mean, what if Bitcoin keeps, you know, puttering along, but I think what it does it gives us a knowledge and idea of, "Wow, here's a new paradigm. Here's a new way to think about money. How could we improve upon the fiat system?" That's a great explanation. Holding your Bitcoin in self-custody is an important step towards self-sovereignty, but writing your seed phrase on paper is risky. Paper can burn, fade, or get lost. MicroSeed helps you stamp [music] your seed phrase onto a small steel washer. Buy the device once and use it forever. I love it. It's durable, precise, and easy to transport. Use my link below for 5% off. Now, back to the show. That makes me think of the sovereignty aspect and I know that's important to you. Tell us a little bit about why the sovereignty aspect is important. Yeah, I think sovereignty is important at an individual level so that um individuals can can manifest their true selves and give their gifts to the world. I think that's really important. Like a thing that I think about so much is like and and you might know this in your circles that there's so many people that are so talented but had to take up like, you know, a job because they just had to make things work. And and imagine if they were truly able to pursue that thing, it it would just provide more light in the world. For the most part, but we as we know with when people have freedom, they will take it to the edge, you know? Um but I do believe that most people are good and most people do want to be of service where they they can. And so, I think sovereignty allows you to have the freedom to take control over your life. And from a health perspective, that's really important because no one knows you as much as you do, right? And often in health, we export that responsibility outside because it's those people that know more. And admittedly, you know, some of these people studied many years and do have credibility, but at the same time, they may not know you as much as you do, right? And so, if you have sovereignty over your choices of how you can keep your body healthy, sovereignty over the information that you can search to find to improve your health, it potentially could make for a better environment. And and we also see this, for example, I think it was the World Happiness Reports recently came out. And freedom, if you will, is like a a measure of maybe sovereignty. And it tends It's not a perfect measure, but the more free a country is, you tend to have potentially better outcomes as well, too, um because it just lends for a a more conducive society where people can collaborate cuz they they don't fear what um the consequences are of them just maybe speaking out or pursuing their interests. Yeah, that's very interesting. And I used to follow the happiness reports and you didn't mention the happiest country, but it used to be Denmark and they pay really high taxes, but they get a lot of They get a They get a lot of benefits. But I don't know who the happiest country is now. But I absolutely relate to the freedom part. Once I felt I had a little more freedom with Bitcoin, then I realized where am I spending time that I don't really want to do. I want to be a productive member of society and I think you're right, most people do. So, that freedom is invaluable. Yeah, where was I going with all this? Let's go to the health because my editor always says to me, "You need to talk more about health because that's my level of expertise." And I agree 100% that we know our own bodies the best. We tend not to listen to them in this modern age because we don't get out in nature enough, we don't take that time to to check in with our bodies. But it is possible and absolutely it's it's like anything, I believe that once you know yourself, you can get information from an expert, but then you have the final say whether that's going to work for you because we are not the same. So, how did you get into health? Yeah, so I got into health um I've just always I've always enjoyed being active and learning. And so, those two things and also the guidance of my parents kind of growing up like, you know, in their day there's two careers, you're a doctor or lawyer pretty much. And so, it's like study, you know, kind of study the sciences. And so, I listened to that, but I also had a a love for other things. So, I did a bachelor of arts in in biology. So, I I got that taste of, you know, other subjects as well, too. And so, I I kept pursuing that forward. I loved to play sports as well, too. So, that was just like a natural also connection to my interest in health. And then I tried different things in like the the health realm, like I I worked in like a science lab as well, like a proteomics lab and looking at like all these graphs and stuff. I shadowed in hospitals as well, too. Did a a number of things. And the place where I actually landed was in a health education department. That was probably a really pivotal time for me. It was it was great because it cemented my love for education and teaching, talking to patients about these new studies of educational like interventions that I like to. It wasn't drugs we were giving people. It's like, "Hey, imagine if you can get this information, would it empower you along your journey?" And so that exposed me to health education and kind of just ran with that. So like one of my specialty areas is around health education and community health. And so yeah, I decided to pursue that to the highest length that I could and then directed educational programs in universities across North America. Wow. And and you wrote about the debt money crisis, right? And how is that system impacting health more than people realize? Yeah, so that was a piece I wrote for Bitcoin Magazine. And I think the debt money crisis, it really gives us like a global lens, right? On how unfair the the global monetary system is. You know, many Bitcoiners, we know Alex Gladstein's work on, you know, check your financial privilege and you understand these global institutions that are set up are meant to keep keep the system going. And when you realize at the base of it, like when money is just debt, debt and credit, and you understand that some countries will never get out of debt. They're they're just given perpetual loans and it's just you know, it just lends to this extraction and the the people could never get out of it. Um, it just it just makes you aware of like, "Wow, like but this is the thing that we're not really taught in, for example, in health education, public health. And I think it's core to what we should be teaching and learning as well. Just because, you know, if you look at health promotion models, that social economic layer, if you want to make the biggest impact when you think of the health impact pyramid, is that it's that money layer, that economic layer. That makes sense. What was the moment for you when Bitcoin really just clicked? My goodness. Like many people, I heard about Bitcoin like several times prior to the time where it just like kind of clicked for me. But it was interesting. It was this doctor in the UK who's like really big on like personal development and productivity. And he was talking about crypto, how he was looking at that as an investment. And I thought that was fascinating. And Leia, like many people, just like, "Oh, interesting, crypto." And then you realize, "Okay, no, it's not crypto." And from there, I just did my own work and research like looking at YouTubers. Some of the YouTubers that are kind of on the crypto Bitcoin side, I think it was like Real Vision that I, you know, had some foundational materials that got me to understand kind of the general problems of the current financial system. And then I would move to questioning, you know, again, the validity of this crypto argument modeled in between the message. And that led me to like the Breedloves for, you know, of of the space who really kind of show you, yeah, Bitcoin is it. So I don't know if it was a particular like aha moment, but it was definitely a journey and just more and more seeing more YouTube videos, more evidence that Bitcoin is the only thing. And Saifedean Ammous, his work too, made me really kind of land on Bitcoin as the one that really matters. Yeah, that makes sense. So as a Bitcoin mentor, what do you help people with? Yeah, so when I was early in my learning journey, I soon came to the place where I was like, "Wow, I want to learn how to teach this stuff." So I started reading tons of materials and I was like, "Ooh, it would be great to find a company that I could, you know, be a part of." And I saw a call for Bitcoin Mentor and Bitcoin Mentor jobs. I had no clue like who the people were. It was actually BTC Sessions. That was part of the organization and Mike Cook, an awesome serial like entrepreneur. And I was elated to to know that I was selected to join the team. And so at Bitcoin Mentor, we help people with self-custody solutions, inheritance planning, helping people level up wherever they are in their journey. We're not prescriptive. We try and support our clients with best practices. But yeah, so my idea is to essentially help people where they they're at. So Bitcoin Mentor is a place where I can I can help people one-on-one with private educational services. That sounds great. And do you run a node? I do. Yes. I do run a node and I suggest that like everyone that gets into Bitcoin at some point runs a node because it's it's very educational and empowering to know that you can, you know, trace your own transactions and also vote, right? We're we're having a very contentious period right now with, you know, knots versus core and you know, deciding where you want to lend, at least you have a say in in that system, which is which is really neat. Yeah, absolutely. Tell us about attending the African Bitcoin Conference. Before we got on the call, you told me a little bit about that. And yeah, what was your first impression of Africa and Bitcoin is in Africa? Yeah, so what's interesting, I always say kind of like Bitcoin brought me home in a sense, right? Like my my father's from Ghana. I grew up in Canada and you know, have this multi-cultural background. And what's odd is that I've always said, like everyone's like, "Oh, when you going back to Ghana? When you going back?" I was like, "I'll go. I will go when it feels right for me." It's interesting. So as I was stepping down from my full-time role at the university, I had this opportunity to go to the Africa Bitcoin Conference. And when I learned it was in Ghana, I was absolutely elated and then, you know, told everyone in my family, "See? You see? I'm going and it's Bitcoin that's bringing me home. So you should probably learn more about this [laughter] thing." So Yeah, so it was personally amazing. Like I got to spend time with family that I've never met before. But I think what was really inspiring was just to to see all of the builders, African builders. Also just like it's just a different type of energy. Like I've been to Bitcoin conferences, you know, across kind of North America and it's just a different vibe. There's a little more of urgency there because you know, the CD is not the most stable currency out there or the naira or, you know, there's just these currencies are just so broken. And so it's amazing to see like KG building Mantle Core and seeing how people with feature phones can transact in bit with Bitcoin to seeing early days of Fedi being kind of tested at a at a marketplace with local vendors and freedom fighters speaking and telling their harrowing story. It was just and, you know, Ghana is the first country that gained its independence in Africa. And you could feel like that energy in the room where all these like Ghanaian and also just African builders overall, it's like, "We are going to make this like Bitcoin adoption come out of the continent, you know, and in a way that the world will see." So it's just you just have to feel it yourself and go to, you know, one of these conferences on the African continent. It's just it's it's mind-blowing. Wow, that sounds like a really cool experience. Hi everyone. I'm excited to share that I'll [music] be a speaker at BTC Prague 2026, the biggest and most influential Bitcoin only event in Europe from the 11th [music] to the 13th of June. Come and join me to hear incredible speakers like Michael Saylor, Jack Mallers, Fred Pyeatt, >> [music] >> and many more. And connect with a community of true Bitcoiners. >> [music] >> Get your tickets now before prices go up and use my link below for a discount. See you there. It is amazing to think that freedom comes in so many forms. And now we have another opportunity to be free from the systems and an opt-in option with Bitcoin. And it really is from a grassroots level, and we all have that opportunity. Yeah, it's it's amazing. It's amazing. >> Why do you think some people still resist the sovereignty that Bitcoin offers and just even, you know, to learn about a new way? Yeah, I think that I'll start with the first one. I think it's it's tough, you know, as an adult to to learn something new and something as important as money. Like often people they already have their story shaped around like what money is, how it functions, and if someone else goes to, let's say, that person, they're really like, "I'm good. I know what I'm doing." Even though I'll talk about inflation is bad all day to, you know, my friends and family, and um but it's just something I think it's just just growing up in an a a a knowledge construct about what money is and and it's interesting. It's like, you know, that saying like, does a fish know what water is? Like the fish just like swims in the water, right? And it's kind of just like us as human beings. It's like we just use money and we just kind of never kind of question it. It's just what it is. And I think there's a lot of people fit into that. And it's not until something that really maybe moves the person where they actually start maybe wanting to to learn more. And so yeah, I I think it's >> I mean, like, if you think about it for you, it was because you saw how Bitcoin could maybe change these systems and the health care industry, and you saw that broken money could really make a difference. And I suppose each person has to see that in some way or in some way in their life see how Bitcoin could help. And it usually comes with a crisis. Yeah, and unfortunately it is that or it is um, you know, curiosity. Here's some people are just like, "Oh my gosh, this is just such an interesting um technology or innovation or discovery that I just wanted to learn more." But for many of us it was um yeah, having to think through or experience a difficult situation and then you start thinking, "Huh." But I think a a big hang-up is the volatility aspect. So I'm just curious like, in your circles, how do you talk to people about volatility and how Bitcoin still is a tool of sovereignty? >> [laughter] >> It's a great point because, you know, today I released a episode with Robin Seyr, and he basically says that he believes only about 5% of the world will ever really go into self-sovereignty because of the volatility, because they will go into more of the products like Stretch. Maybe some will go into the ETFs and to some of those instruments, but he says most people won't stomach the volatility. And that is a tough one. I when I talk about volatility, I just say it's part of the adoption curve that Bitcoin that, of course, is us pricing Bitcoin in dollars or Canadian dollars or in fiat currency, right? Because one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin, but that's a even harder sell >> [laughter] >> cuz it took me a long time to get that one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin. Why is one Bitcoin one Bitcoin? Because there'll only ever be 21 million. And many of those are lost. We won't be printing any more. So why is it volatile in the short term? Well, I suppose the fiat system is volatile and Bitcoin kind of reflects the fiat system. As we print more money, Bitcoin goes up. Then there's there's also the cycles. I still still believe in human cycles and the four-year cycle a little bit. And it's just going to take some time for this new protocol to really take hold. And maybe most adoption comes in when there's less volatility. Potentially. But yeah, it's it's interesting how, you know, the the whole stablecoin introduction is kind of you know, it's it's ahead of us. And yeah, so maybe people will regard a stablecoin as their everyday money and then, you know, maybe the Bitcoin as the volatile savings instrument or something like that. But it'll be interesting. You know, none of us has a crystal ball to actually predict what the future holds, but there is a theory that, you know, money starts as that kind of like savings mechanism, then kind of medium of exchange, unit of account. I will see. We'll see how things play out. You know, stablecoins is interesting because, as you know, Jeff Booth calls them guaranteed loss coins because it's the US dollar, right? So the US dollar is going to continue to be printed. So if you are saving in stablecoins, yes, if you're living in a country like Africa or Africa. Uh in a country like Ghana or Zimbabwe or anywhere in the global south where money tends to really lose value quicker, you're going to beat that currency holding it in stablecoins. But you're not going to beat the US inflation because it's just based on on the US dollar. There's the problem with that. For me, again, it goes back to that 17-year time period where Bitcoin has gained approximately 40% a year or more. Really because of the increased printing of money. So stablecoins might be, like you said, a short-term solution for some people, but it's not a long-term solution. Yeah. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see. Yeah, it's it certainly will be part of the journey because it's it's going to onboard a lot of people, and hopefully that'll bring them to Bitcoin to start learning. Yeah, and it's what's interesting is so I've co-founded something called Dream Grad Academy. It's a light node in the My First Bitcoin ecosystem. And the idea is to help um beginners. We are doing a thematic refresher on Bitcoin and health. So um hopefully in the in the coming months we'll be releasing a new website sharing this information. But in the diploma um eight week, well, we condense it to eight weeks, but it's 10 weeks technically. In the the last chapters it talks about like the future of money and, you know, talks about central bank digital currencies and we just had um our first pilot cohort complete the diploma. And it was just so interesting to hear the conversations of like first a lot of um participants didn't even know about this whole stablecoin thing and CBDCs. Like no clue. And so it's just I think it's so important for education, like different educational initiatives to just reach as much people as possible. But to some of your earlier questions, like some people just they're not going to be interested. And I think that is fine, too. But I think, you know, what you're doing with this podcast is is so great because it will reach some of those, you know, people earlier on in their journey and they'll they'll learn more and hopefully will start getting involved with Bitcoin. Well, thank you. I think by speaking to different people, I know this is not the type of podcast that's going step by step through, but we have people like you and Dream Grad Academy. Is that a Bitcoin course or is that a money course? It is a Bitcoin course. So right now the education is centered around the My First Bitcoin diploma. Um and we hope to adapt it cuz it is it's open source. It's and it's great fundamental information to to use to then develop something related to health, but it it's not traditional finance kind of course. It is truly kind of a course that talks about what are the the problems with current day fiat kind of and then building the case for why Bitcoin. And here is here's a short technical overview of what Bitcoin is. And then here is how you potentially can use it. Like the whole ideal is not to teach people what to think, right? It's just to get them to think critically about what they've been thinking or not thinking about money. Yeah. And I just think about it it does take about eight to 10 weeks, but that might seem a little bit long for some people, but there is that much information. And it's week by week, right? So you can take your time and and do it at your own pace. Or do you do this together? Yeah, so we do offer a one-hour intro course. Um and what's great is My First Bitcoin has created these materials so that anyone with internet connection can go on and take a self-paced 1-hour course. And then they do have other resources and the diploma, too. You could read that on your own. But what we offered at Dream Grad was live facilitated sessions. I had a co-facilitator out of Europe, actually, and I would do like one session, she would do another session to help people with their busy lives like schedule in a session. And then the participants had access to materials because all the slides are open sourced and so forth. So, we will be right now Dream Grad, as I mentioned, is under construction, if you will. We're working on the website and all of that. But hopefully in April or May, we'll have a launch of the website cuz we want to talk to some stakeholders who are in the Bitcoin and health space to see if our potential programming and like what we offer makes sense. And you mentioned that some of your family and friends are Well, you talked to some of your family and friends about Bitcoin. What's your process with them? And would you just recommend them to take your course or do you kind of gauge where they're at? They the ones that are like immediately like living with me all the time, they they they have a great sense of kind of, you know, the Bitcoin 101 cuz they just hear me talking about it all the time. But for maybe family members and friends that are like a little outside of my house, if you will, I just find you just have to meet people where they are. So, often it's like people are like, "Oh, so what are you doing?" And I was like, "Well, I'm doing Bitcoin education." "Oh, interesting. What is that?" "Oh." And then the conversation kind of then leans on their questions and then I try and give them answers that are relatable to them. So, that And then sometimes you just like get eyes all glossed over, let's move to the next subject. I'm not interested. Or a big one is they'll have the conversation, they'll have their phone out, and then they'll talk to chat GPT and be like, "Is this accurate?" It's not only me battling with them, you know, in a sense, it's chat GPT and that comes with its own problems. So, I don't have a specific formula at the moment, but that's kind of how I approach it. At least you can laugh about it. Sometimes I get irritated, but yeah, no, that's that's a good approach. If you truly understand Bitcoin, you know why it's so important to be your own [music] bank. Without full self-custody, you're trusting a third party that knows who you [music] are and how much Bitcoin you hold. Bitcoin is about eliminating counterparty risk. It's about self-sovereignty. The Bitcoin way is the best way to learn the skills for this level of freedom. Their 101 approach teaches [music] you how to take self-custody without ever needing to know who you are or how big your stack is. Go to The Bitcoin Way and book a free 30-minute consult. Don't delay. Your freedom is at stake. You're like me and so many of the typical guests I have. We we're so excited about Bitcoin. Is this another side for you? Is Is there a spiritual side or does Bitcoin have deeper meaning for you? Oh, that's a great question. I I think it does. I think there is a spiritual side because I do think I'm of the mind that there is a spiritual side to money. We go back to what I said earlier like, you know, when people are giving value from their true gifts or they're allowed to do that. And if you believe that comes from, you know, a divine creator or something like that, that to me really shows that there there is something greater here. You know, money is this like connector as well, too. And with that, it makes it bigger than ourselves, if that makes sense. It's way more than money. I think what Bitcoin gives us. It gives us a set of principles as well, and as we know, like all great societies kind of had these great principles or ideals or something higher that they kind of believed in. And I think Bitcoin gives us this opportunity to not worship money, but then come back to fundamental values that help to make societies function on a sound ground. So, yeah, I do think there is a spiritual element. And I think it's also you know, right now the world is in such kind of turmoil and and chaos to extent that it's, you know, it relates to physics. Like when there's lots of chaos and entropy, then that leads to a state a more steady state. And I think in the future, we will see that, right? Bitcoin potentially could be a part of that a big driver of moving to that state of more stability. Like Tomer, he he eloquently describes, you know, what the future could look like on a Bitcoin standard. And I think that's a wonderful utopia that we could strive to, you know, whether that's really going to be the case, I don't know, but it does show that wow, there's something inspirational here. Well, it does make sense, right, that these forever wars will be less or not at all. We won't have forever wars if we were on a sound money because we can't just print more to keep fighting. Yeah, I mean, even if you look in your own life, my life gets better the more time I spend in Bitcoin and the more I get away from the chasing fear treadmill. I'm still in that a little bit, but the more I get away from it, the better life gets. And so if if the whole world starts to see that, it really could create a better world. How has Bitcoin changed you? I would say, yeah, Bitcoin's changed me tremendously to the point where I stepped down from a full-time, very cushiony position to pursue this Bitcoin education idea. And it's really forced me to be more introspective, to really think about my time, what do I want to be working on, how can I help be a bridge to, you know, future learners to address the things that they want to address or be involved in using a Bitcoin lens. So, it's it's changed me tremendously. And what I think also is really neat is that it's it's allowed me to connect with people that I would have never imagined to meet. Like, for example, you and I, for example. I would have probably never have have met you if it wasn't for this Bitcoin wavelength that we're on, right? Like we we both thought it was important to attend, you know, this women's summit and we happened to be in the same room and chatting and then we connected. And I don't and I gain so much from everyone in Bitcoin that I meet, for the most part. And it's just such a such a hopeful thing during especially, you know, this this period that we're in right now in society. Yeah, I agree. There is something about Bitcoiners and like you said, most of them that I think most of us want each other to do well with Bitcoin because if one of us benefits, we all benefit by adopting. And then I also want the whole world to especially, you know, especially the people who just are out there just wanting to improve their lives. I just really want them to find Bitcoin because I believe it creates a better world. You know, one of the people I interviewed, Matt Manning, he's I love this quote. He says, "Bitcoin isn't just technology. It's a spiritual nudge, a silent invitation to exit the illusion and re-enter alignment." And what that just says to me is once you save in Bitcoin and you realize you don't have to be on that treadmill, you can look within. You have time to look within. Bitcoin itself isn't spiritual, but it gives you that opportunity. Just like any very wealthy person, if they really wanted to look within and stop pursuing, you know, just more and more and more, they could. And some somehow Bitcoin is want that. Which is what you did, right? You you stopped a job where you were doing well in fiat and and you obviously felt a big pull to this. Yeah, I I thought especially from a health perspective and, you know, someone being in health education, like helping to promote healthy behaviors, I think Bitcoin is an idea that should be in incorporated in health promotion or at least in discussions because it's it's, you know, to us as Bitcoiners, we know this. We know that many people make um to life change transformations. They've lost weight, they've become healthier, and so what is it like you're describing it, you know, it's kind of like this lens that helps people look at themselves and and make changes, but I think the broader public does not know that. And I think more than ever, like, you know, you think of Gandhi, you know, be the change that you you want to see in the world. And really that's what we we need. We need individuals who are trying to be their best selves and they empowered with a money that allows them to have a longer horizon, you know, building horizon for what they want from themselves, their family, their future. It's it's just so vital in in the health space that I think that we incorporate it as a a tool to just spark discussions. Well, I love that you're doing that, Emma. Is there anything you want to leave the audience with? Thank you for listening and I think the the one thing is is if you haven't looked at Bitcoin from a health perspective, I would just invite you to do so um to see, you know, where is it in in your life that you might be exporting that responsibility outside and how could you take on that individual responsibility. That would be my piece of encouragement and then for those that are interested in this theme of Bitcoin and health, look out for Dream Grad Academy. We will be launching our website and uh we'll have some educational resources that uh might be of interest. And I'll put links for you below so that people can find it more easily. Perfect. Thank you. Thanks for joining me today. Thank you. Greatly appreciate it. >> [music]