The Lie Everyone Chose To Believe - Jeff Booth

Today, I'm excited to welcome Jeff Booth back to the podcast. Jeff is the best-selling author of The Price of Tomorrow and general partner at Ego Death Capital. Thanks for being here, Jeff. No problem at all. Great to see you again, Pura. Great to see you. So, my intention today is to help my audience see Bitcoin more from the lens that you do so that we can move more of our time and energy into the Bitcoin world. I watch all of your podcasts and I notice you start with the natural state of the free market is deflation. Why do you start there? Yeah, um those nine words um have a lot of signal together. Um and I'm trying to pull people out of a world that they know. Like the world that's comfortable, a world that's reflecting back at them that because if that's true, and you could just just so you could start with is it true is that true? And and what what I you end up happening is people nod their head, right? Subconsciously they know it's true. They've never investigated it at a first principles level um and but they they nod their head. And so as they hear that more and more and realize that that's true, it starts to break the paradigm that they've always lived in. Because because if the natural state of the free market is is deflation, then by consequence, it means a whole bunch of other things for the existing world that they live in measure from. By consequence, it means capitalism or communism outside of the system that they live in is just a control system, right? They've never lived in true capitalism or their version of what they think capitalism is. They've never lived in a what they believe a democracy is because they because if money is stolen from them and they don't have a vote in it, then then they've never lived in the version of reality that they believe they lived in. And all it takes is stepping piercing that bubble, like really piercing it, and staying with that uncomfortable because that natural what when you say that it's it's uncomfortable at first. It's uncomfortable because you know something's true that doesn't match your previous reality. So, what you want to do what what's pretty typical the first time you hear it is um agree with the principle, agree uh agree with the principle, and then try to make your other system work within it. And so, you try to say, "Well, it can't we can't live in a totally free market. There has to be some control." And then the next next question would be, "Well, how much?" Right? And how much is the is the is the right amount? We can't live with with people being free and and and and so, there has to be some people in charge. Well, who? Right? And so, all of those things are are are out uh pulling somebody out in into a different reality that they've never seen before. And and trying to keep them there, and then asking, "What if what if what if what if?" And what I find what [clears throat] I find so interesting is is even people that repeat it over and over again, and this is kind of what you're saying in the beginning. You know it's true. You've spent a bunch of time digging in why it's true. Um and then and then you fall back into the trap of the existing system. And and what I would say is that's just normal. And that's And why I start why I always start with natural state of the free market is deflation is to hold that thought. Just hold it. Right? >> [snorts] >> And and then and and then ask a different question. What if there was a protocol it and here we're talking about Bitcoin that was decentralized and secure bounded by energy. What would it be telling you versus the signal that the existing fiat system was telling you? Because if that if if you couldn't create more Bitcoin and it was decentralized and secure and you say there's this 21 million cap then what it would be imposing is the first free market that ever existed. It would be this signal everything from that system would be that signal imposing that reality. Bound there's a system that was bounded by energy decentralized and secure and it would be imposing that. From that system prices would fall forever. So, it's kind of asking a what if what if what if that uh versus what would the other system be telling you? What would the signals from the other system be telling you? Um and and and so as you stay with that question or or that statement more and more and you realize it's true, then you decide then eventually you come to a determination of which system am I going to give my energy to? Why is it imposing it though? Because that's where a lot of us get tripped up because why won't they survive together? Yeah, so like yeah and keep pushing if if that so so markets can stay irrational for a lot longer than we believe. Right? And and you just but ask yourself this inside a system that must exponentially increase uh pieces of paper would that would eventually people realize what's happening? Like it could be irrational for a long time, but let's say the system that we're in the debt is already insolvent. Every piece of paper that you're measuring the world from is completely insolvent. Every government comes in and says we're going to get the debt under control and the debt moves up exponentially. Why? Because credit money has to grow exponentially. It can't allow deflation. In other words, it cannot allow the free market. So, when you see the centralization of media, when you see the centralization of big tech, when you see the centralization of of health care, when you see the centralization of government and government getting bigger and all of those, your individual rights and freedoms moving away from you. And you're inside this system that prices are rising and you're trying to to get out of that system from the same system. You're a cog in the wheel that's of that stra- extraction that is going to big tech, that is going to big pharma- pharma, that is going to big agriculture, that is going to the all of the the negative repercussions of that is essentially it's a system that is stealing your energy and and and transferring it to somebody else. And so, eventually you see that. Right? So, so why do I say it's imposing? Um if you believed that that that somebody else could make arbitrary money forever, just pieces of paper, like you let's say the world you're measuring the world and in one system you're measuring it from 21 million units and the other system you're measuring it from infinite units. In the system for 21 million units, prices are falling, life's getting better, you you're you're your ability to buy more with your your time is expanding. In the in the other system, it's getting worse and worse. You're you're you're losing your time. You think it's somebody else, but it's you inside that system measuring from infinite these pieces of paper that are just growing exponentially to measure things in the world. And and that is taking from you. It has to, right? And eventually you'll see it. So eventually people in Venezuela, when money goes to zero or Lebanon or pick country, eventually people wake up and they say, "I was I I I was robbed." Right? And they rise up. But as they rise up, they realize that there's this control system over them, typically with a dictator. Um that they can't get out of. And and so that that that reaction to a system that's degrading, spending more time in it thinking it's somebody else, is pretty normal. And and it has a a um predictable consequences for all the people stuck in that system. Um they get they get rug pulled over and over again. Right? They [clears throat] believe it's somebody else. They believe somebody inside that system can save them from the very system that's extracting them from them. They believe that and >> [clears throat] >> and why would they believe that? Because those people at the very top of that control system, with all the extracted money, running media, running all of the running government, and all of the everything they're looking through is that same system. So it's easy to believe it's this hero or this hero that could save me from that system. And and and the the consequences are pretty predictable. So why is it imposing? It's really simply cuz eventually people find out that they were stolen from. But pretty pretty typically after they've lost everything. But what usually happens is we move to another system or we move to another country. China takes over as the world reserve currency. But now what you're saying is we have an option, which is the free market, which is Bitcoin, and more and more people are seeing that. Yeah, and and these things are happening while it feels so chaotic. All of the things are happening at the same time. So, you have a neutral reserve currency. You have a neutral protocol 21 million that has never existed before. Um and so so it would be if you if if something had never existed before, and here I'm saying Bitcoin, then it would really be a it be hard to understand just the concept of it. Right? When you think about the internet, I'm sure we're going to go in this deeper, but you don't think about the internet in in 1995 or 2000. You think about that when you decided you were going to start using the internet. Right? You think about the you think about that time and if you go through the noise of what happened through that time time and and all of the businesses that are disrupted through new business formation and what we use today. We couldn't see that before those entrepreneurs took a leap to build value on top of the internet. But you're measuring in the typically in the '90s about the internet. The internet started in late '60s. So, now now now would you have seen the internet in its evolution? In the in the beginning part of the internet and would you have stayed if you owned a piece of that internet? That you owned all of the value that everything was going to ever going to come on top of it. Would you stay an owner for a long time or would you have sold out when you could make enough money in pieces of paper? And so from that very simple example, you can understand what human action will look like. Most people today in Bitcoin will sell their Bitcoin for pieces of paper and be right back in the existing system. Most. They might feel rich for a time. And and and Bitcoin will still keep imposing and new people to buy it will experience prices falling forever. And this is going to happen this is going to happen over and over again as as as this system when I say imposes there is only one caveat. The caveat is it stays decentralized and secure. And if it stays decentralized and secure it is you have a choice to measure the world by 21 million units or infinite use of units. If you measure by infinite units, your time is being stolen is being concentrated away from you and you'll believe there's somebody else. If you're measuring from 21 million units, you'll realize you have a you have a say. You have agency. You can you can run a node and protect its decentralization and security. You can you can be part of a network that gives you agency over the shape of where the world's moving to. You mentioned the current monetary system steals our time and energy through inflation. Is that why we say it's built on a lie? Yeah. So the entire construct the entire construct is a lie but it's it's >> [sighs and gasps] >> and just what I just just described there if you're still holding on to even the last grasp of that you want to push back but you because you don't want to believe you were lied to. You don't want to believe your identity is wrapped up inside that other system. And and that identity is so strong within that other system that it's so easy to think it's somebody else. So when you realize it's no one else but it's you that that is harsh for people right that want to believe the fairy tale of of of their their life and that it's somebody it's there's somebody else to blame or somebody else is going to save them. Hi everyone. I'm excited to share [music] that I'll be a speaker at BTC Prague 2026, the biggest and most influential Bitcoin only event in Europe [music] from the 11th to the 13th of June. Come and join me to hear incredible [music] speakers like Michael Saylor, Jack Mallers, Brett Fallon, and many more and connect with a community of true Bitcoiners. Get your tickets [music] now before prices go up and use my link below for a discount. See you there. And the reason it's it's me is because if I was in those positions of power, I would do the same thing or it's because I have the option to move over. Yeah, you have the option to move over. More um >> [clears throat] >> more let's let's just do a uh let's do a do a version of that reality um of of what you would you might tell yourself from a fiat system. So the first first agree agree on the principles of both, right? The principles of both are what I what I say is uh you have two different systems. One um 21 million units, decentralized and secure protocol that's that's not just a store of value, it'll become a medium of exchange, it'll be the new internet, it'll be every everything. But from that system, 21 million units, you would expect the natural state of the free market to to be it would be working and you would expect prices to fall over a long time as as it from that unit. So so you can then test your assumption. Is that's what's it happening? Right? And that's what's happening, right? If you go any four-year period in Bitcoin, you can see all prices fall again against that assumption. Is it decentralized and secure today? Yes, it's decentralized and secure today. And you can make a whole bunch of Do I believe it will tomorrow? How do I ensure it will tomorrow? You can make a whole bunch of things from that. So, guys, so that's one system that the [clears throat] output of what you would believe that would happen is happening. Right? The other system, the output of what you would believe would happen, a credit-based system, must expand monetary units over and over and over because it can't allow If If you allowed prices to fall from the credit, the credit becomes uh or de- it it it's insolvent immediately. It's already insolvent, but there's a belief it stays solvent because you can make up more pieces of paper. But there's no way to pay back the debt in the world. So, there's no way to allow what I just described before Bitcoin to to be the operating system of the world from this system. They're in They're in conflict. So, now imagine you were i- imagine you were uh president of a country, prime minister of a country, and your team and everything um and and you were faced with I can tell the truth that everything's already insolvent. It's going to zero. And we need to move to Bitcoin really really quickly, and every citizen needs to move to Bitcoin really quickly because you'll have more wealth go going forward if you do. Um or or I could say it's uh it which at that point would you have a chance of getting elected? Probably zero, right? Yeah. Um z- for sure zero. Um And [clears throat] so, what would you do? You would say, "It's those people over there. I'm going to cut your taxes more. I'm going to take from those people and give back to you." You just stay in the system because there's never been another system. You then you'd blame somebody else and and and all of the people that are voting and giving you their power would buy the lie that they wanted to hear. So, how would you how would you resolve that from how would you resolve that from that system? And the way you what you what you can see it's it's virtually impossible to resolve that problem from that that system. So, you can expect um more centralization. You can expect more division. You can more chaos from that existing system while Bitcoin just every 10 minutes has a new block has a new block repricing the world. Yeah, I get that and I've been thinking about that Jeff since we spoke at Vegas and you know, you often say and I see it with all the people that I interview that 95% or more of Bitcoin is including myself still price Bitcoin in US dollars sometimes and invest in the fiat world. And I was thinking why do I do that? Because I know Jeff says that's making the system stronger and I can see that now. So, there's part of me that just has a little bit of doubt whether it's going to fail again or whether or whether Bitcoin will really people will see what we see and you see. So, it is a slow move over, but is there anything else that we need to see to help us take the next step? No, it just it just tells you why this is going to be chaos so chaotic. So, so you can know something um and and and and by the way, I try to use Bitcoin all the time. Well, if there was a choice to use Bitcoin or or or currency, I would use Bitcoin. But even still, I use fiat dollars every time I I do, I think right? So, so and and there's people uh, and but I'm watching people in in complete circular economies use Bitcoin all the time. And I'm and and so and and we're all moving more and more of our time. So, there's no good or bad, right? And and it's just once you have an awareness of something where your actions um, shape reality in the way you want them to shape reality. Once you have an awareness, now you that awareness does exactly what it's doing with you and you start choosing and you start to see more opportunities in the in in in the world you're wanting to move it more your time into. This is your podcast. This is what you do every day. This is why you're touching other people. Um, and it's not um, but [clears throat] just out of that if if if some of the uh, top Bitcoin leaders of there's no leaders, but there's if there's voices or different people, they're they're talking different stories. Like Saylor Saylor and I have different stories on what Bitcoin uh, what Bitcoin it is. Um, some people resonate with mine. Some people resonate with with his. In his to it's digital credit and you can get a yield on it and everything else and that seems I I understand tons of people will do that. They're not bad people. Saylor's brilliant. And um, but I have a different thesis on what uh, what's happening and uh, and uh, and I'm moving my time into that into that thesis and people every single person has a choice and it's going to be messy as as as these choices come up against reality. Energy backed to uh, >> [laughter] >> energy backed money that isn't changing, that is decentralized and secure and they've made a bet somewhere else. So, they won't want to that that might unwind completely. Because your thesis is the Bitcoin network is is the free market, whereas Saylor is buying Bitcoin in the fiat market. Yes, his company is doing great and and putting that in self-custody, but people buying his company are still investing in the in the fiat world and Yeah, let's [clears throat] go a little bit deeper in in into that. So, so if you if you believed it was digital gold, which would be a rational thing to believe, it's the best asset in the world, right? Um you you could have done tons of work on on Bitcoin. That belief it's dig- digital gold is better than gold and why is it better than gold? Because it's decentralized and secure and and um you can hold it in self-custody and um but if you believe that and then it and you had this thing underneath money and money was still credit, then that credit would have to expand over and over and over and you'd have monumental uh growth in credit on top of now fixed money, which would centralize fixed money just like it did against gold, right? Centralizes gold. And then at one at some point down the road when when you realize that credit money couldn't be paid back because the free market is deflation, that would either explode and wipe out everything else or that system would try to change Bitcoin. So, so we can see just through just through kind of the observation, that's why I start with the natural state of the free market is deflation, because it's in conflict with everything every other model of reality you've ever had. And so from that position, now you can ask the question if Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure against this thing that's increasing monetary units and trying to tokenize everything. Why would you tokenize everything? Cuz you can get more people to trade their money into the you can create more more more money. To tokenize everything and you can have everybody inside that system that still accrues everything to the top. Just a just certain leaders, right? But by doing that Bitcoin centralizes. Or they're not not that the nodes might not centralize. But then the Bitcoins Bitcoin the version of Bitcoin that you're investing in you're in in the ETF you're in that version of Bitcoin centralizes and then at some point is still in conflict with the free natural state of the free market. So it would have to attack [clears throat] Bitcoin. It would have to try to stop resolve stop Bitcoin from being successful being decentralized and secure. So you can see what's coming. Just from natural human action and why people will do that and why people in and and and And now it ask the next question when that attack happens. If Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure that version of Bitcoin just like the version of Bitcoin in in 2017, right? They are cause cause hard fork with effectively zero today against Bitcoin. That version of Bitcoin with all of the capital and all of the new units of money built on top of it that people believe is valuable will be liquidated. If Bitcoin stays decentralized and secure. So which means you really need to get into self-custody. You really need to run a node. You really need to be a part of the solution. And if you're part of the solution in that the thing is is this is where Saylor could be brilliant and he can win a a huge portion of this and and not today he I'm not saying he is attacking or anything else. He's uh Bitcoin is is resilient to that attack. No one will try that attack. So so that whole digital credit needs Bitcoin to be the protocol that's emerging in layers to protect its value, too. So it's >> [snorts] >> your belief that the attack will be on the centralized Bitcoin and people in self-custody, that won't be the attack as much. I mean, we know governments can ban try to ban it. Yeah, so so and [clears throat] this is really where you really have to get into what's happening at the protocol level, the privacy, all of the different things. I No, I I suspect that like in the Clarity Act, um there is a that's being talked about today. There is a part that you can build self-custody wallets, but if you know that self-custody wallet is being used by by somebody who's deemed bad for it against the state, which anybody could be deemed bad against the state, right? If you had a control system, then and then then they can go after that. So you can expect that uh you can expect types of attacks everywhere in Bitcoin, not just that centrally. They would you'll it'll use every possible tool because the systems are in conflict. And it's not and and this is where I go back to yes, there's a percentage of really bad human beings on the planet, >> [snorts] >> but it's a re- it's way smaller percentage than you actually believe. It's It's most of those people are are caught in a system trying to do trying to do to and haven't kind of hit where you are already. And how we could we reshape this in a totally different way that to that that would and so they're still stuck in in a narrative. And they tell themselves, I'm trying to do better for my people than those those other people and they believe it. And there's a whole bunch of people who would shower them with love and affection for doing that and and and shooting the other people and telling them how bad the other people are. And so they're just caught in a belief trap. Yeah, that makes sense. When do you think these attacks could start? They already are. That's why you use faddy. That's faddy's one of the ways and and I think most people don't realize how important privacy is because I don't. Yeah, they already are. They they already have been for for quite a while. The not core debate is is similarly in in that and and and I'm not sorry. I'll ask a I'll pose a question. Yeah, that makes that hopefully makes people think. If there was a small team of developers um that were the guardians of Bitcoin um and that and that could be an attack vector. Whether it was a not, whether it was in core, whether it was in one version of people. And you couldn't break it you couldn't break this. Would you try to break it by going after those people or would you try to break it by by by by saying by getting close to those people and then feeding on their fear when when people attack them in Bitcoin cuz the consensus mechanism if you're a developer it would be hard because you're constantly nobody wants to change. You think you have an idea. So you what you would do is you would insert people that made those people feel special. Right. And and every time there was attack you would use that to make them feel more special To to now it we're a tight group against those other other other people. We have more and you would insert it you would in you would insert um I I don't want to be careful here. Um because I'm not against all of the not the core people. I'm again I'm I'm just saying in principle, if you see if you see the Epstein network infected all just about all politicians and what that what that looks like and you still don't know the answers to that. Dark money has massive consequences and they know how to move people's move move move people. People might not even know that they're being moved in that direction. So um and this is one of the things that I spent a lot of time on. Bitcoin needs multiple implementations. It's needs it needs people like like Luke Luke and Mechanic to to be a voice of the other, right? To to fight the fight it is and then we all have choices to see to see what do we want? What does my node want to want to want to run? And we need to see all of the fights cuz normally in in any previous history, we didn't see we didn't see the entire we were told what to believe from a group of people. In this in this system, we get to see it all and we get to make a decision on what's right for us. I love that you said that. I like that idea of dark money because that's a great way to put it. Do you think we also need more nodes, more node options? Is is that important or and will this all take care of itself in time? I think I think when just like what we're observing right now, that messy the free market's messy and chaotic too. It should be messy and chaotic cuz everyone has a different idea. And the idea has to serve us. And we've never seen that before. Right? So, anything that gets centralized or risk of centralization is for this thing that you're you're seeing even in the core core knots to debate. That risk is the the and the objection from it and the people that are like yelling and screaming and everything else and then creating new implementations is um is a direct response to the centralization and the removal of their say. Right? I used to have say. I didn't uh um the the the Bitcoin used to look like this for me for me. I fear that it's going to take this step and then we don't the nodes won't have any control. And I'm going to go and do something about it. And so, and then that creates a whole a whole bunch of a different risk factor that let's use knots on the other side of risk vector. What if I run knots and there's only Luke and and a couple developers in knots? It doesn't have an ecosystem of funding. What if the what if it's not code reviewed and enough? What does that What does that That's a different type of risk that gets solved by more and more people choosing one or the other. And then and then capital and and and moving into which uh which version is is the right version for uh for them. Holding your Bitcoin in [music] self-custody is an important step towards self-sovereignty, but writing your seed phrase on paper is risky. Paper can burn, fade, or get lost. Microseed helps you stamp your seed phrase onto a small steel washer. Buy the device once and use it forever. I love it. It's durable, precise, and easy to transport. Use my link below for 5% off. Now, back to the show. You know, Jeff, you said that most people are good and I do see that. But, it does seem that in positions of power or notoriety, like you said, people are easily corrupted. Yeah. There and and and and so that's the so the interesting thing about Bitcoin, it doesn't care. Right? What I find most fascinating about this is I can take agency in this thing and watch all of these fights and choose which which side, not bad people, just people trying to do uh what they think is right and I'm doing what I think is right. And I can watch this thing um emerge and I can part of this this network. And then if people are easily co-opted then they they typically get flushed out because Bitcoin is imposing a new uh this this new system. And so they for a while they look like a star and everything else and then um the Bitcoin um slay your heroes. Right? And then they take a path they try to from which which is pretty normal and I'm I have more power, I have more say, right? We've we've lived in that version of reality forever. Um and uh and and and by doing that Bitcoin like in Bitcoin kind of has the one rule, don't cheat Bitcoin, you'll cheat yourself. Yeah. I love that. >> have a Yeah, you have a you have a cooperative game that the competition on uh competition to cooperate makes everybody better. And you have and you can expect a different game that we've all the zero-sum game that we've always lived. That too, it's so different than the zero sum game we've already it lived in. So, we have modes of operation that human beings will cheat. And they won't tell themselves they'll cheat. They'll say they'll say um like if you were offered money that increased an increase in or power or something that increase an increase an increase at some layer of money or power you would tell yourself I need to do it first before somebody else does it to me. Right? So, when I say cheat, I'm saying that we've never lived in an honest system. So, you would naturally out of that honest system or dishonest system have a whole bunch of people trying to step on other people to try to get up above them. Um and if there was an opportunity, they would take it. And not bad people. They're just they would just watch watch beast games. Watch Survivor. Right? They they they it's just a really good Those are just why they watch most movies, right? It's it's a version of this reality showing what people do in the wild. And why do you why do people turn tune in? Cuz they're wondering what they would do. Well, I've heard you and I think it was in your book where you say 97.3 .5% of people if given the chance would probably go that way. And I put myself in if I was in government and I was thinking I was going to do good, but then I got there and I realized you can't do what you want to do and somebody offered me a huge amount of money to do something the other way. I I can see that I might take that. I would experience cognitive dissonance, but there's a good chance I might do it. So, so I love that you said that about yourself. Right? I just love that that the the honesty, the vulnerability in you saying that about yourself because once you once you realize that that's not it's then you realize that's just not bad people, it's a system designed in a way that people do the thing that's best in the interest for them in the short term and they'll miss the long-term implications of what that does a lot of times to their own psyche. Right? To to everything else and they think it's somebody else and they be um and and but Bitcoin is the opposite system. Right? And if you had the opposite system and you didn't have to worry about doing that, you could just cooperate in this new uh new system, then what's going to happen is 10, 15, 20 years from now, um we won't be talking about this thing we're talking about Bitcoin emerging like we're talking about and and to understand the emergence of it, you have to be so deep in the technical weeds of how this works and and what it looks like and all the different pieces. It's like going back to 1969 and trying to think about how the internet is going to emerge and you'd look like a crazy person. And then when you told those people that didn't know what the internet was yet about your piece of the internet that the why this works like this, they would just will go back to the world that they live in. So, this is this is what's happening right now and it's 15 or 20 years or 10 years, um people will be getting so much value on top of Bitcoin and all of the the companies and the value that's being built into this this protocol, that they won't have to go into the messy details. So, we are early. We're really early. And I I loved your keynote in Vegas, finding signal in a noisy world. And you started off this time by saying you wanted to show people that they are the signal. And why was it important for you to begin like that? You just I I I think about all of the people who've touched me in my life and they and and when I and people I couldn't even think, right? I'm not the same person I I I I I I I'm I'm a different person today than I was a year ago and 2 years ago and 5 years ago. And through that curiosity and looking at other people and what works, what doesn't work, and trying to and meeting different mentors in my life, some uh um parents friends the these people become part of you. They become a part of your operating system, how you see see see the world. And then when you look at somebody else you forget that they have a different operating system. Because they read different things, they saw different things, they they they had different experiences. And we could have this podcast and we could um and this will touch certain people in a different way. Some people tune in, some people won't, and and it'll be part of them as well. Um that's how the world evolves and it bounces into these ideas that we then pick is this right for us and it changes us or it doesn't change us. We get locked into our identity and and and if we get locked into our identity without curiosity um we we can find ourselves in this trap. We have every reason everyone probably has this story from their childhood about the things that happened to them and why they do the things they do that just reinforce over and over and over. >> [sighs] >> Um and [clears throat] and there's this quote I had I love, it's never too late to have a happy childhood. Um and uh and and it's interesting because because the we carry these stories and they're so true for us. They define us. But if we carried a different story, that would be true, too. And so we so we're we're we're carrying these stories around and we watch other people carry different stories. So convinced our story is right and and their story is wrong that we don't actually listen to the to the moment. But but it shows that point is it shows how deeply connected we actually all are. All of the good, all of the bad, all of the all of the hopes, all of the dreams, all of the the different things, everything that ever touched me is in me. I'm making this moment that you and I are doing um the only moment that then we then we create value from this moment and and move forward and we can both change in this moment. We can keep most of things. We can find something in us that says, "Wow. She does that so brilliantly. I want to take a piece of that into me." I started that speech specifically not about Bitcoin but about about about us because because Bitcoin is us. Because because when you understand how the nodes work, when you understand how your time works, when you understand how your where you invest works, where you understand um it's you. It's you described in in moving the world forward in the version of the world that you want to move forward. And that's okay if other people don't see it yet. So what you're saying as we move our time to Bitcoin for most of us, because it's based on truth, it just becomes a better world. And and you're also saying we don't see things as they are. We see things as we are. And then we create that new reality with our thoughts. And the beauty I'm trying to bring this to Bitcoin because I think this is where people can go a little bit deeper and see the way you see because as you create a better world which Bitcoin kind of like you said is imposes on us because it's based on truth and all the people that you touch and we touch together it just makes sense to to move to this this better world because we feel better in that world. Yeah, and and and my time right now matters. Doing this podcast I take time from my family or take time from something out to do this podcast. So so and I'm and I think about my time off because it's the thing I can control. And so why am I doing it? Right? It's um I'm doing it because it's valuable to my time. It's valuable to and and and for what you ask me you say the same thing over and over people don't get it yet and everything else we do get tired of saying the same thing over. Sometimes but but then but then the light that lights somebody up that that that that one person that's uh that it changed their life forever. I realize how powerful these moments are. How how how crazy and and and I go back to all these people in my life that I couldn't do this without them impacting me. Well, I really appreciate your help Jeff because nobody says it in the way you say it. I know there are people who see what you see but yeah, I I really appreciate it and I see other people too. Like I watched you on Mauricio's podcast and you said that someone can't be truly free unless they embrace Bitcoin. Why is that? Um because it goes back to the first thing I said that if the natural state of the free market is is deflation and we have agency in that then and we've never seen then we've never seen a free market. We've never seen our true agency. And now imagine just do a thought experiment. What if what if you had 8 billion people that actually had agency? That everybody was getting better at the rate of improvement that that would imply because 8 billion people competing in a cooperative design to provide value to 8 billion people. As they realize how much power they have imagine that moving forward for them and everybody else. As they unlock and move more of their time. And and the version of reality that they're giving their energy to it's Trump, it's Biden, it's it's this country, that version of reality that they're giving their time to is the thing that's stealing their time. The and and so I understand how big a deal that is. It's a staggering deal. It's so shocking to our brain because we've never seen something that's that could look like that. Or that we actually had an ability to make it happen. That we were part of the solution. We've never had the that ability to see and imagine how how powerful that that is. When I when you think about the abundance and the what would happen in a free market and you add collectively all of those people that would be I'm not saying every idea would work. Most will fail. But even the ones that fail if you even go back to Bitcoin, all of the failures created Satoshi to have the success. And so all of the ideas, even the failures, turn into new people trying to create value for us, different ideas, to and constant iteration. That massive competition to serve you would usher in a state of reality um that that is so foreign and so beautiful to to to most people because it's never existed before. Um so so it would it would sound like it would I understand how this sounds to somebody who can't believe that it would be true. It would sound like it would sound like lunatic speaking. But this is what's happening. It's imposing the system and that is what's happening. And if you're deep enough in Bitcoin, you already see that reality. You're already part of it. You're already like you're in you're in and maybe the question to you from from your own version of when you started Bitcoin to where you are now, are you starting to see that reality? Yes, more and more. Yeah. And and as you see it, you want to move more of your time into it. And my you know, second last question for you is does it take seeing it from a higher consciousness perspective or a deeper understanding of the mechanics of Bitcoin to to really want to put the majority of your time and energy into Bitcoin? I think it's I think it's both. And I I would say that so if you there's different different paths up the up the mountain. And and if you started from you could start from anywhere on that path. But once you're operating on an honest on a system and you're down to the base of the under standing that honest the uh then it'll take you up the mountain faster. Right. I I I see a lot of people uh can can kind of moving into kind of higher consciousness energy that started in lower consciousness energy um when they first started uh in in Bitcoin and starting to move and exploring those things. Or you could Or you could just see something that was true. And it was always true. You might be a higher conscious looking looking at it and realizing it was always true, but there was never a medium to allow it to be true in the world. There was never There was gold. There was different There was never never an architecture that you could be a part of that could resolve the conflict conflicts of the world. So so so so uh when when I think about this or when I think about all of the incredible teachers throughout time, so if you go back to Nicola Tesla, if you go back to Buckminster Fuller, if you go um most many of the many of the religions are based on the same principles. Um and but it couldn't resolve itself. It was the power was always in us, but we always deferred to somebody else. And so now now Bitcoin gives us an ability to participate in a system that power is within all decentralized in all of us. Yeah. That's why it gives so many of us hope. I love that. So, Jeff, I will see you in Prague. It's great you're going to be there. Is there Yeah, any focus you have there? No, it's my first time in Prague, but I'm really looking forward to it. We'll see you there. Thank you so much, Jeff. Thanks, Paula. >> [music]